How much luck/ skill is in poker?

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HSmith

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I feel like some sessions im unbeatable, dealt dream hands and players calling. Other sessions im not allowed to win, no matter how good i flop i will bet big and get outdrawn by a backdoor full house or something sick. Constantly outdrawn even when im an 80% favourite on the flop.
So my question if poker is so much skill how do you consistantly win when the cards are very much against you?
And please dont say 'youll win in the long run' ive been playing for a year now and cant consistently win because of the sessions i get horribly outdrawn almost every hand when i should be winning them most of the time!
 
Shrops

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Both

Poker is both skill and luck. I think the skilled player will overall do better than the lucky player.
 
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HSmith

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Poker is both skill and luck. I think the skilled player will overall do better than the lucky player.
How do i beat these super lucky players then, its really frustrating because in the unlucky sessions im always a huge favourite to win the pot but always get outdrawn :(
 
Amanda A

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To be consistently successful you need skill, to win a tourney you need to be lucky and you also need to not be unlucky at critical times. No good if you have luck and then you get dealt KK when someone has AA and you are short stacked and need to shove. That's just going to be it for you, nothing you can do about it
 
Rosxana13

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If you're not winning on the long run, then you're not as good as you think you are. Actually, thinking you're a victim doesn't let you see you're own lack of skill.
 
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Shooter74

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For me: 40% Luck ..... 60% Skill!!
 
terryk

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That's poker man! Your not supposed to win every hand. And as you get better,you'll win a higher percentage of hands,and that's it.:damnmate:
 
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HSmith

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If you're not winning on the long run, then you're not as good as you think you are. Actually, thinking you're a victim doesn't let you see you're own lack of skill.
Yeah i know i have a lot to learn but when i lose big its always an unlucky situation like i have KK and they have AA or when i have AA and they have KK they river a king. Or i flop really well but they flop just a tad better or outdraw me with a backdoor flush or something, a stupid call from them in the first place as its not a profitable call. Most of these outdraws are coming from when all the chips/ money is already in the pot on the flop, from there its down to the cards that come out but they rarely favout me even when im a big favourite, its so painful! :p
 
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anderson697

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Poker is both skill and luck. I think the skilled player will overall do better than the lucky player.

I think the same. Poker is skill and luck. Although there are days that have consecutive AA pair in hand you will not win anything.:cool:
 
Ricardo007

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I think you just have to control your emotion, and see that it's not only you who are in the game, keep an eye on the traps
 
Yanko57

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If you're not winning on the long run, then you're not as good as you think you are. Actually, thinking you're a victim doesn't let you see you're own lack of skill.


This. Plain and simple. The long run define if you're a winning player or a losing player.

If you're losing, study your play.
 
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xRanieri

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Huge in small sample, Nonexistent in huge samples

Yeah, luck has a huge impact on a small set of hands, say 2000. But yeah, as you play millions and millions of hands, luck goes away. A bad player will lose hundreds of buy-ins, while a good player will win hundreds of buy-ins.

Everything approaches EV as number of hands increase.

When it comes to tournys or nose-bleed sessions, luck is so important your life could change based on it. Getting to the final table of a huge tourny because you won 8 out of 8 coin flips would be nice.
 
TheMuffier

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I feel like some sessions im unbeatable, dealt dream hands and players calling. Other sessions im not allowed to win, no matter how good i flop i will bet big and get outdrawn by a backdoor full house or something sick. Constantly outdrawn even when im an 80% favourite on the flop.
So my question if poker is so much skill how do you consistantly win when the cards are very much against you?
And please dont say 'youll win in the long run' ive been playing for a year now and cant consistently win because of the sessions i get horribly outdrawn almost every hand when i should be winning them most of the time!
Your question is very results oriented.

Variance is a part of the game. If you are going to measure your ability by how much you are winning / losing then you are going to hate poker.

Review your hands and decisions after every session (not immediately after, takes the crucial notes and rest up first) when you are running bad.

Even if you have a cash losing session, if you had an +EV session then it's just a matter of riding the variance. It helps to know you are winning EV even if you are losing actual cash.

By the same token, when you review your hands and you find yourself winning a session in cash but playing below EV then you need to fix that shit asap bc when variance hits you. You are going to absorb your roll in no time.

Always focus your reviews on whether or not you are playing making bank EV wise.

When running bad. Play but reduce your variance by playing fewer tables, maybe one or two.
Further reduce your variance by playing fewer hands (shave off the bottom of your range a little) then iso in most of your pots so that you are only up against 1 or 2 people max. You should do this anyway but make a point of it when running bad

And as for how much of poker is luck, the answer is dependent on your game format. If you play cash game, then there's not a whole bunch of luck there. Pure skill with a sprinkle of luck.

If you play tournaments, the luck is required a little bit more there due to the amount of flips you have to take sometimes.
You need your good hands to hold, your draws to get there and your crushed hands to get there when it matters most.

In a cash game, ideally, the moment you are below 85 bigs, you top up back up to 100+

You don't have the same luxury in tournaments. When you are below 22 bigs, you start looking for spots to 3bet get it in.

Each time risking your tournament life. Once again, cannot quantify the luck factor in poker without a set scene but I would stop referringto it as "luck". Variance is the appropriate word, luck is just what the uninformed call variance.

The answer to your question is your results will show long term
 
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gwj63

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overall skill outweighs luck
if you play correctly, maximize wins, minimize losses
skill will have a huge advantage over luck
as well as if you play correctly, luck finds you too
and I don't mean 1 outers, they help but I mean,
standard poker, raise from the button and flop the nuts
that's a little luck
 
jmateuspoker

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Luck/Skill in Poker'

The more you study more skilled and will have more luck

Luck can lead you to a wonderful collection of quick results but becoming a regular player only after you have studied and corrected and evolved in learning
I do not think so in luck but it helps a lot on the speed of your achievements

:jd4:mateuspoker
 
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Souza322

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I think skills are all in poker. Ss the only explanation of why we always see the same faces in the last instances in tournaments.

And even if you do not like me to say it... "Luck" can help to win with KK vs AA, but for long term you need skills
 
frnandoh

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Poker is about knowledge, mindset and luck (or variance). Even we have a good skill, we need to be in a positive variance of our mind and our luck. So the first step is to improve our knowledge.
 
Krypton173

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In Poker like in Life everything is both Luck and Skill, your only focus should be on getting better at the game and in the long run when luck balances out, you will emerge a winner. If you are only playing it for the money there is a strong chance you will fail. Basically if you improve your skill and put enough volume you will be a winner. Example: Let's say you study and play SNGs. You need to play something like 2.5K SNGs to have a rough idea if you are a profitable player or not.
 
Ricey155

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Really depends on where you play tbh, it seems most freerolls people are hitting 2 pair, str and flushes a lot and people say it's like live poker, you hardly hit a pair in live poker but online it's hit after hit !!

I feel like some sessions im unbeatable, dealt dream hands and players calling. Other sessions im not allowed to win, no matter how good i flop i will bet big and get outdrawn by a backdoor full house or something sick. Constantly outdrawn even when im an 80% favourite on the flop.
So my question if poker is so much skill how do you consistantly win when the cards are very much against you?
And please dont say 'youll win in the long run' ive been playing for a year now and cant consistently win because of the sessions i get horribly outdrawn almost every hand when i should be winning them most of the time!
 
XXPXXP

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luck 0, skills 100.
just my opinion.
it is a pure game of calculation, and management, so skill is 100.
 
takinitSLEAZEE

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Have you ever wondered why players will tell each other 'good luck' before a race? Right.The true test of skill v luck is in a heads-up match, imo. I've had players challenge me to a heads-up match while in a trny/sng for one reason or another. They usually want to play for 3 to 4 times the current buy-in because they have something to prove like their level of skill, which for some reason, is supposed to matter to me. All this tells me is that they're on tilt and trying to get some $ back. Obviously they do not understand variance. Although, I must say most of the skill people possess will be displayed pre-flop. Then again I've been playing this game for 30+ years and luck has never changed. GL everyone. :alien:
 
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kceow2981

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I feel like some sessions im unbeatable, dealt dream hands and players calling. Other sessions im not allowed to win, no matter how good i flop i will bet big and get outdrawn by a backdoor full house or something sick. Constantly outdrawn even when im an 80% favourite on the flop.
So my question if poker is so much skill how do you consistantly win when the cards are very much against you?
And please dont say 'youll win in the long run' ive been playing for a year now and cant consistently win because of the sessions i get horribly outdrawn almost every hand when i should be winning them most of the time!


Depends on how many hands you've played during that year, but if you've played anything over like 40k hands, and you are a losing player, then you are not unlucky, you are just not good. Need to study and learn more, (or avoid tilt).

Now if you are a losing player over like 10k hands, well now it's possible that you are a winning player and just got unlucky. But once the sample size gets up to around that 30, 40, 50k hands range, you need to be honest with yourself. At that point it is no longer randomness, it means that I am consistently making bad decisions and that is why I am losing.
 
playinggameswithu

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Short run all luck long run all skill (cash).
 
Newzooozooo

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Hi.
No doubt.
Thanks to freerolls, you can create your bank account in just a few months.
And it is also very important to determine the purpose and to adhere to the priorities.
Good luck.
 
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ilucha228

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At a distance, skill is more important than luck.
 
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