heads up and cheating

absoluthamm · Sep 17, 2011

It isn't collusion, but I understand and think it should be reported. Stuff like that happening is one of the reasons why legalization of poker in countries such as the US is even in question. Why would you have to dump money like that instead of just transferring it(granted I know some sites do not transfer)? Why would you want to lose the amount in rake? Why go through the trouble? Because there is something fishy about it. They want it to look like they won the money and that it wasn't just given to them, otherwise they would have just transferred it.

Poker Orifice · Sep 17, 2011

absoluthamm said:
. They want it to look like they won the money and that it wasn't just given to them, otherwise they would have just transferred it.

That's actually not correct. I've read about quite a few (& seen some as well) where the two players make no effort to make it 'look like' anything but what it actually is. How about they weren't able to transfer it?

Poker Orifice · Sep 17, 2011

"why would they want to pay that amount in rake?"
Pretty sure it's insignificant amount.

absoluthamm · Sep 17, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
That's actually not correct. I've read about quite a few (& seen some as well) where the two players make no effort to make it 'look like' anything but what it actually is. How about they weren't able to transfer it?

The only logical reason would be that they couldn't transfer it as I know some sites do not allow player to player transfers. But I have seen personally, and also on numerous threads in the past, about people chip dumping HU to obviously transfer the $$$ on sites that are extremely easy to transfer to another player, most notably FTP and Stars. In that case, it screams that something fishy is going on. Come on, I know you of all people know how easy it was to transfer on Stars and FTP

Poker Orifice said:
"why would they want to pay that amount in rake?"
Pretty sure it's insignificant amount.

Agreed, insignificant amount, but the question still just comes up as "Why?" if they were able to transfer P2P? Would you go to an ATM that charged you a $3 fee if you knew that right next to it there was an ATM that had no fee?

Roller · Sep 17, 2011

Well it is what it is.

HU dumping has always been a quick method to transfer funds for some players. The site wins because they make Rake, other players aren't effected in a negative way and the players win because some prefer and trust this method over transfers. It's a Win Win so Dump Dump - if you wish ....

lol
Well unless it effects the possible legalization of poker in the US.
Then PLEASE NO Dumping.
Dump Free Zone.

Either way I can see both sides to it and neither promote it or chastise it at the moment.

bigphatmike · Sep 17, 2011

tcummo said:
hi all,
just been reading about collusion and cheating in online poker.
it seems to me, if you are going to play for money, then
heads up seems to be the 'safest' game to play.
i can't think of any way to cheat playing heads up unless
you are playing against a pokerbot.
any more than two players and collusion is possible.
are there any 'known' ways of cheating at heads up ?

I'm not a hundred percent shure ont his but on Carbon Poker, in the real money heads up games you have to be very careful, im pretty sure 80 percent are poker bots or cheating some how. they are all from the UK ( no offense) and its the same guys, and they arent losing ever.. i feel bad for the ppl that get fished into playing them. Try to stick to Us players on tehre and you should be ok..

TTYL

Poker Orifice · Sep 17, 2011

bigphatmike said:
I'm not a hundred percent shure ont his but on Carbon Poker, in the real money heads up games you have to be very careful, im pretty sure 80 percent are poker bots or cheating some how. they are all from the UK ( no offense) and its the same guys, and they arent losing ever.. i feel bad for the ppl that get fished into playing them. Try to stick to Us players on tehre and you should be ok..

TTYL

Why would it be difficult to play a bot HU? (esp. 'cash table' HU). As long as it's not programmed to hit & run lol.
How do you arrive at 80%.... & 80% of what? This 80% of whatever sample size it is you're speaking of, also 'never' loses? That sounds kinda unbelievable.

I don't think I'd feel bad for someone who was playing HU cash vs. a bot. I think I'd feel sorry for them if they couldn't beat a bot in HU cash & are actually a HU cash player.

absoluthamm · Sep 17, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
Why would it be difficult to play a bot HU? (esp. 'cash table' HU). As long as it's not programmed to hit & run lol.
How do you arrive at 80%.... & 80% of what? This 80% of whatever sample size it is you're speaking of, also 'never' loses? That sounds kinda unbelievable.

I don't think I'd feel bad for someone who was playing HU cash vs. a bot. I think I'd feel sorry for them if they couldn't beat a bot in HU cash & are actually a HU cash player.

lol, no kidding. A bot should be extremely easy to beat HU because they are pretty much the definition of predictable. The only way you're going to be having problems is if you are terrible HU.

Also, I kind of doubt that there is a huge bot ring going on at the HU games on Merge(granted, I do not play them, so I can't say this for 100%). HU games would be about the worst games to try to make a profit with a bot with anyways because:
1. They aren't as popular as FR or 6m
2. You'd have to play more to gain more(problem when there aren't as many running)
3. Because the bot is the sole opponent, it is going to be much more noticeable as being suspicious than if in a FR or 6m room where there are others to concentrate on as well.

Vfranks · Sep 18, 2011

absoluthamm said:
Sweat you

ah gotcha, was honestly interested in what u were trying to say and couldn't figure it out

Poker Orifice · Sep 18, 2011

I'm kinda wondering something... what happens when one of the bots plays a bot? Who wins... & how often? (is it like 50/50... or 80/20 still.. if they've got a better bot). What if the bots are the same? What if the same person has more than one bot on the site & they keep on regg'ing for games with each other? (doesn't the bot owner take a beating in rake?). Do they just sitout & refuse to play vs. their fellow bots? Does the bot know if their opponent's a bot? I wonder if some of the bots in their stables are way bigger winners than others?

Vfranks · Sep 18, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
I'm kinda wondering something... what happens when one of the bots plays a bot? Who wins... & how often? (is it like 50/50... or 80/20 still.. if they've got a better bot). What if the bots are the same? What if the same person has more than one bot on the site & they keep on regg'ing for games with each other? (doesn't the bot owner take a beating in rake?). Do they just sitout & refuse to play vs. their fellow bots? Does the bot know if their opponent's a bot? I wonder if some of the bots in their stables are way bigger winners than others?

I think the bots skill depends on if they are purebred bots or not. If the parent bots are winning bots than the bot will be a winning bot. Kinda like dog breeding or something along those lines..
Oh, and only sibling bots know if they are playing their other sibling bots so they split the pots to breaks even a lots.

^^insert sarcasm at the beginning

On a serious note.. Don't people program/tweak their bots to play certain ways? Like you can purchase a bot, but it's not necessarily a winning bot unless you change settings or program it or whatever.. thought I read that somewhere on this forum in an older post, but can't remember if it was merged to the rigged thread or not lol.
IMO people shouldn't worry about bots, as any poker program I've played against is easy to beat, even tho the only bots I know of playing against are cell phone texas holdem games u download to your phone.
I once thought I was playing against a bot in a cash game online, so everytime it bet I would just raise and it would fold unless it had the nuts... but it was prolly just a nit and not a bot.
I'd imagine bots would sit in FR cash games and prolly just making very small amounts of money peddling the nuts and making most of their $$ off rakeback/bonuses if anything.
But who really knows unless you have one or kno someone that does, and I doubt anyone here from CC is in that category.

trucker103 · Sep 19, 2011

buster999 said:
colluding on Facebook poker.
Two girls on Facebook Poker Chat think that by muting everyone, nobody can see THEIR words - YouTube

always get a good laugh when i read posts here
hope to run into these girls at the real tables too funny
tx for posting it

tcummo · Sep 19, 2011

i read that bots now communicate with each other
just like colluders only with a lot more info.
if you google pokerbots there is a lot of info.
i think there is even a pokerbot championship
somewhere.....

Roller · Sep 20, 2011

tcummo said:
i read that bots now communicate with each other
just like colluders only with a lot more info.
if you google pokerbots there is a lot of info.
i think there is even a pokerbot championship
somewhere.....

Bot Collusion .......
LMAO
Now that's a twisted web they weave if AI is able to self collude and take advantage of the situational data at hand.

What's next.

DaveE · Sep 20, 2011

Poker Orifice said:
I'm kinda wondering something... what happens when one of the bots plays a bot? Who wins... & how often? (is it like 50/50... or 80/20 still.. if they've got a better bot). What if the bots are the same? What if the same person has more than one bot on the site & they keep on regg'ing for games with each other? (doesn't the bot owner take a beating in rake?). Do they just sitout & refuse to play vs. their fellow bots? Does the bot know if their opponent's a bot? I wonder if some of the bots in their stables are way bigger winners than others?

Intertubes get blocked, interwebs assplode....apparently this is gonna happen some time in 2012.

sryImPro · Sep 21, 2011

you think poker rooms can't satisfy just with rakes?...well,i play HU a lot but only low stakes,2$,4$....but even if i got a millions i would never play for ex. 5K HU,it's just not worth of risk,you mentioned pokerbot,so we can't do nothing against some1 who acctually see our cards...

Zorba · Sep 21, 2011

kcanuck said:
Intertubes get blocked, interwebs assplode....apparently this is gonna happen some time in 2012.