The great player Vanessa Selbst - myth or truth

[duggs]

I was just discrediting the OP's point

 

[GSPchamp315]

or looks at her career earnings?

That works too well I wouldn't mind earning 9m+ for sure

 

[smihailov]

Yeah 9.5m in earnings is a lot, I wish I had that kind of record.
Did u say 1600% ROI is not that good?!!!

There is one guy, that plays online - agrobot or something was his nick - he made little bit more than 2000 % profit for just 3 months, but does anybody know who is this guy. Does anybody shout: "He is a great player".
I don`t have anything in mind Vanessa Selbst. She is not guilty that she had such luck. But I am against all that noise around her and how great she is, because she is not.
You can not see her playing 72o like Tom Dwan plays. You can never see her making such exact reads like Negreanu does. You can never see her aggressive like Gus. I know that she can not be all these persons, and that she is Vanessa Selbst and she plays her own way, but this way is not something that deserves all that noise.
Can you see what I see - pokerstars (which in my opinion and experience is the best poker room) are making a huge advertisement, trying to get to the females.
Correct me if I`m wrong.

 

[10058765]

Sigh.....nothing more to mention....

 

[lulu pk]

There is one guy, that plays online - agrobot or something was his nick - he made little bit more than 2000 % profit for just 3 months, but does anybody know who is this guy. Does anybody shout: "He is a great player".
I don`t have anything in mind Vanessa Selbst. She is not guilty that she had such luck. But I am against all that noise around her and how great she is, because she is not.
You can not see her playing 72o like Tom Dwan plays. You can never see her making such exact reads like Negreanu does. You can never see her aggressive like Gus. I know that she can not be all these persons, and that she is Vanessa Selbst and she plays her own way, but this way is not something that deserves all that noise.
Can you see what I see - Pokerstars (which in my opinion and experience is the best poker room) are making a huge advertisement, trying to get to the females.
Correct me if I`m wrong.

I never see Tom Dwan,Negreanu or Gus, win back to back Mohegan sun i never see them win the PCA high roller and the next year take the 2nd / 3rd place
on boot high roller, and go deep in the main.
ps:I like Negreanu...

 

[wizz__]

She is great player, cause she can make the right moves in right places. She plays agressive , opens in wide range, and it is difficult to understands, what she has. I really like the way she plays. I remember when D.Bronson said, 1 hand in wsop i guess Doyle raise , and Selbst moved allin with 52 ,but Doyle had AA, but the morale is, she plays very agressive and unfear, and as you see she makes money with that and gets trophies.

 

[duggs]

There is one guy, that plays online - agrobot or something was his nick - he made little bit more than 2000 % profit for just 3 months, but does anybody know who is this guy. Does anybody shout: "He is a great player".
I don`t have anything in mind Vanessa Selbst. She is not guilty that she had such luck. But I am against all that noise around her and how great she is, because she is not.
You can not see her playing 72o like Tom Dwan plays. You can never see her making such exact reads like Negreanu does. You can never see her aggressive like Gus. I know that she can not be all these persons, and that she is Vanessa Selbst and she plays her own way, but this way is not something that deserves all that noise.
Can you see what I see - Pokerstars (which in my opinion and experience is the best poker room) are making a huge advertisement, trying to get to the females.
Correct me if I`m wrong.

Lol winning 1 tournament can give you a 2000% roi, what's important is the bi, field toughness and sample size, Vanessa crushes the highest as toughest tournament fields in the world. Beast beast beasting them. Dwan doesn't play 72o like a genius lol, and neagranu isn't even close to the calibre of player Vanessa is.

Frankly if they were trying to get females involved, there are much more logical candidates to use purely for marketing, Vanessa is a lesbian, tomboyish, quite outspoken with her views, and not in anyway stereotypically spokesperson ish. What she is is ****ing amazing at poker and this is why she has her very deserved sponsorship and puplicoty

 

[lulu pk]

Until some time ago the only women that you can see at the high roller tables are the masseuse.Vanessa Selbst is the only women who play this high limits tournaments.
Not only that she play,but she is great and she win.
So nothing that you can say will change that.

 

[etojeLucker]

i think she is have more lucky, dont think that she is great player

 

[duggs]

The most likely conclusion I can come to is that

A) you suck at poker and have no idea what you are talking about
B) you dislike women being more successful at things than you.

There are heaps of overrated poker pros you could take shots at their credibility, Vanessa is not one of them and is one of few women in the upper tiers of high roller regs

 

[smihailov]

Lol winning 1 tournament can give you a 2000% roi, what's important is the bi, field toughness and sample size, Vanessa crushes the highest as toughest tournament fields in the world. Beast beast beasting them. Dwan doesn't play 72o like a genius lol, and neagranu isn't even close to the calibre of player Vanessa is.

Frankly if they were trying to get females involved, there are much more logical candidates to use purely for marketing, Vanessa is a lesbian, tomboyish, quite outspoken with her views, and not in anyway stereotypically spokesperson ish. What she is is ****ing amazing at poker and this is why she has her very deserved sponsorship and puplicoty

The guy did not won just one tournament and if we think like that the half of the winnings of Vanessa are from only 5 tournaments.

 

[duggs]

You need to give his abi, sample size, and citations if you want people to actually compare them. But comparing her to one phantom on the Internet instead of people laying similar tournaments is stupid

 

[cc_minh]

OP is lol. Vanessa is the nuts!

 

[GSPchamp315]

Until some time ago the only women that you can see at the high roller tables are the masseuse.Vanessa Selbst is the only women who play this high limits tournaments.
Not only that she play,but she is great and she win.
So nothing that you can say will change that.

Whag about Liv Boeree and Vanessa Rousso?

 

[lulu pk]

Whag about Liv Boeree and Vanessa Rousso?

What about? they never play a high roller tournament ,if that was the question.

 

[GSPchamp315]

What about? they never play a high roller tournament ,if that was the question.

I missread your post and I thought you meant that the only good women player is Vanessa Selbst lol so I just meant they're both good players as well

 

[Lheticus]

There is one guy, that plays online - agrobot or something was his nick - he made little bit more than 2000 % profit for just 3 months, but does anybody know who is this guy. Does anybody shout: "He is a great player".
I don`t have anything in mind Vanessa Selbst. She is not guilty that she had such luck. But I am against all that noise around her and how great she is, because she is not.
You can not see her playing 72o like Tom Dwan plays. You can never see her making such exact reads like Negreanu does. You can never see her aggressive like Gus. I know that she can not be all these persons, and that she is Vanessa Selbst and she plays her own way, but this way is not something that deserves all that noise.
Can you see what I see - Pokerstars (which in my opinion and experience is the best poker room) are making a huge advertisement, trying to get to the females.
Correct me if I`m wrong.

I think the question that is really causing the dispute here is the question "What exactly IS a "great" poker player? My answer? Someone who gets results. And from all accounts, Vanessa gets results. From what I can gather from the above and other posts on this thread, you seem to think a "great player" is "someone who makes great plays", great plays defined as extremely ballsy moves that work, such as folding KK due to a read, bluffing your rump off and everybody folding to your 72 offsuit, or being extremely aggressive with chips to repeatedly pick up blinds and antes. The fact of the matter is, while such plays often LOOK great, what they really do is make the game interesting for TV--they're Hollywood plays. Not all Hollywood plays are great plays, and DEFINITELY not all great plays are Hollywood plays. A "great play" can be more accurately defined as "the correct play to make at a given moment being made". If you don't handicap yourself on information, if you learn to read people's hands, not in a parlor trick exact way--that's completely superfluous, Hollywood banter--but just to tell if you are or are not beat, and you strive to make correct decisions, and succeed at doing so significantly more often than not, you can be a great player. As for your comments on luck, well...claiming she only wins because she is lucky is a bit like flipping two coins and saying if a coin representing luck lands on heads (representing good luck) then the result for the coin representing skill doesn't count. She IS skilled, she just doesn't make Hollywood plays, from what I'm hearing. In terms of great poker players, one hand, one game, one tournament is utterly meaningless (unless maybe that tournament is the WSOP main event.) What matters, as I said at the start of this, is results over ALL the hands, the games, the tournaments. And I don't think anyone can realistically say that she doesn't get those results. If she didn't I probably wouldn't have heard of her, for one thing.

 

[adepoker11]

Vanessa has great results and started a year to be among the best

 

[magicius]

ok from my point of view...

almost all "big" poker players plays kinda similar...

if you try going all in with 92o like dwan or phil helmuth does you will get broke pretty soon...
vanessa is no different,i dont like her style... but thats how poker pros plays...
maybe if i have 1 mil+ i would call with A high on 10k bet...

 

[EvertonGirl]

The most likely conclusion I can come to is that

A) you suck at poker and have no idea what you are talking about
B) you dislike women being more successful at things than you.

There are heaps of overrated poker pros you could take shots at their credibility, Vanessa is not one of them and is one of few women in the upper tiers of high roller regs

+1 Well said

 

[JamaicanKid]

Ok........so i've found this thread quite interesting the original poster asked for proof, i.e solid evidence that Vanessa Selbst is a great poker player which to me is quite rational since we don't know her personally and up until now all I am hearing in her defense is sentiments. Is it so hard to just simply direct him to a few youtube links crediting her? Also as for 'she has 9 million dollars tourney winnings' argument, i've read numerous poker forums about Jamie Gold and the general concensus is that he sucks at poker yet he has over '12 million tourney winnings' so thats that. Another thing i dont know anything about her because i havent followed TV poker in a min, so for all i know she could in fact be very great. I am just saying cut OP some slack, he/she hasn't ask anything wrong just provide proof...its that simple.

 

[smihailov]

I think the question that is really causing the dispute here is the question "What exactly IS a "great" poker player? My answer? Someone who gets results. And from all accounts, Vanessa gets results. From what I can gather from the above and other posts on this thread, you seem to think a "great player" is "someone who makes great plays", great plays defined as extremely ballsy moves that work, such as folding KK due to a read, bluffing your rump off and everybody folding to your 72 offsuit, or being extremely aggressive with chips to repeatedly pick up blinds and antes. The fact of the matter is, while such plays often LOOK great, what they really do is make the game interesting for TV--they're Hollywood plays. Not all Hollywood plays are great plays, and DEFINITELY not all great plays are Hollywood plays. A "great play" can be more accurately defined as "the correct play to make at a given moment being made". If you don't handicap yourself on information, if you learn to read people's hands, not in a parlor trick exact way--that's completely superfluous, Hollywood banter--but just to tell if you are or are not beat, and you strive to make correct decisions, and succeed at doing so significantly more often than not, you can be a great player. As for your comments on luck, well...claiming she only wins because she is lucky is a bit like flipping two coins and saying if a coin representing luck lands on heads (representing good luck) then the result for the coin representing skill doesn't count. She IS skilled, she just doesn't make Hollywood plays, from what I'm hearing. In terms of great poker players, one hand, one game, one tournament is utterly meaningless (unless maybe that tournament is the WSOP main event.) What matters, as I said at the start of this, is results over ALL the hands, the games, the tournaments. And I don't think anyone can realistically say that she doesn't get those results. If she didn't I probably wouldn't have heard of her, for one thing.

I agree that the hands played from Tom, Gus, Daniel are Hollywood plays and may be my example was inappropriate, but let`s look at the last edition of PCA. At the final table Quos just defeated her. She was far far away from his play.
Did you know that she cashes in 59 tournaments for the last 7 years (i`m sure the most of the participants in this post have more), and 7,1M from her 9,5M lifetime earnings are from only 9 of the tournaments. Only that she can afford play in high rollers doesn`t make her great player.

 

[magicius]

I agree that the hands played from Tom, Gus, Daniel are Hollywood plays and may be my example was inappropriate, but let`s look at the last edition of PCA. At the final table Quos just defeated her. She was far far away from his play.
Did you know that she cashes in 59 tournaments for the last 7 years (i`m sure the most of the participants in this post have more), and 7,1M from her 9,5M lifetime earnings are from only 9 of the tournaments. Only that she can afford play in high rollers doesn`t make her great player.

Well said.. She got money to gamble with

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

 

[JamaicanKid]

I think the question that is really causing the dispute here is the question "What exactly IS a "great" poker player? My answer? Someone who gets results. And from all accounts, Vanessa gets results. From what I can gather from the above and other posts on this thread, you seem to think a "great player" is "someone who makes great plays", great plays defined as extremely ballsy moves that work, such as folding KK due to a read, bluffing your rump off and everybody folding to your 72 offsuit, or being extremely aggressive with chips to repeatedly pick up blinds and antes. The fact of the matter is, while such plays often LOOK great, what they really do is make the game interesting for TV--they're Hollywood plays. Not all Hollywood plays are great plays, and DEFINITELY not all great plays are Hollywood plays. A "great play" can be more accurately defined as "the correct play to make at a given moment being made". If you don't handicap yourself on information, if you learn to read people's hands, not in a parlor trick exact way--that's completely superfluous, Hollywood banter--but just to tell if you are or are not beat, and you strive to make correct decisions, and succeed at doing so significantly more often than not, you can be a great player. As for your comments on luck, well...claiming she only wins because she is lucky is a bit like flipping two coins and saying if a coin representing luck lands on heads (representing good luck) then the result for the coin representing skill doesn't count. She IS skilled, she just doesn't make Hollywood plays, from what I'm hearing. In terms of great poker players, one hand, one game, one tournament is utterly meaningless (unless maybe that tournament is the WSOP main event.) What matters, as I said at the start of this, is results over ALL the hands, the games, the tournaments. And I don't think anyone can realistically say that she doesn't get those results. If she didn't I probably wouldn't have heard of her, for one thing.

Well this is a good point.

 

[Ranny]

Vanessa is a top top player, she does seem to be on a hot streak in her recent tv tournaments but we are all entitled to one of those now and then.