W
WiZZiM
Legend
Silver Level
Some people like a challenge ;P.
Some people like a challenge ;P.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Falsely accusing players of a slowroll is one of my biggest pet peeves.
In my mind, you can't really be accused of slowrolling if you don't have the absolute stone nuts. Even if you have the 2nd nuts, there's a chance you could be behind. I've been boated over my nut flush more times than I can remember, so CAM's case of taking his time with the nf after the board pairs is obviously not a slowroll. Now if there is no pair out there, and no sfd, then ok, nut flush is nuts.
Same with PO's KK -- even though he intentionally tried to slowroll it, it's still not a slowroll in my book. There's always AA, and who hasn't seen AA vs KK a hundred times before? Granted, I probably won't ever fold KK pre either, unless it's a DoN/satty near the bubble, but that doesn't mean I won't take a moment to try and eliminate AA from your holdings first.
Some people argue that nuts or not, you wouldn't have folded anyway, so taking time is a slowroll. I disagree, because you don't know what I'm capable of folding. I might have made a soul read on you, or I might just be a wuss when my tourney is on the line, whatever. Zeebo's theorem to the contrary, I have laid down losing boats on at least a couple of occasions I can remember (once to a bigger boat, once to quads). Was it mathematically correct? Probably not, but it felt right (and was right). So don't tell me I'll never fold the 2nd or 3rd nuts. If I don't have the obvious stone nuts, especially in a tournament, I'm going to take as much time as I need to be sure. If someone *thinks* that's slowrolling, well I don't really care.
In my mind, you can't really be accused of slowrolling if you don't have the absolute stone nuts. Even if you have the 2nd nuts, there's a chance you could be behind. I've been boated over my nut flush more times than I can remember, so CAM's case of taking his time with the nf after the board pairs is obviously not a slowroll. Now if there is no pair out there, and no sfd, then ok, nut flush is nuts.
Same with PO's KK -- even though he intentionally tried to slowroll it, it's still not a slowroll in my book. There's always AA, and who hasn't seen AA vs KK a hundred times before? Granted, I probably won't ever fold KK pre either, unless it's a DoN/satty near the bubble, but that doesn't mean I won't take a moment to try and eliminate AA from your holdings first.
Some people argue that nuts or not, you wouldn't have folded anyway, so taking time is a slowroll. I disagree, because you don't know what I'm capable of folding. I might have made a soul read on you, or I might just be a wuss when my tourney is on the line, whatever. Zeebo's theorem to the contrary, I have laid down losing boats on at least a couple of occasions I can remember (once to a bigger boat, once to quads). Was it mathematically correct? Probably not, but it felt right (and was right). So don't tell me I'll never fold the 2nd or 3rd nuts. If I don't have the obvious stone nuts, especially in a tournament, I'm going to take as much time as I need to be sure. If someone *thinks* that's slowrolling, well I don't really care.
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Well, in your case... yeah, kinda.
I mean, if that's your definition of slowroll then I guess it would. But in my mind, while it may have been intended as a slowroll, based on some folk's interpretation (mine included) it still doesn't qualify as one even if you called it that.It's a semantical argument, but since I lost you, let me try to explain my line of thinking: Ultimately, you intentionally stalled. Okay, we agree on that. However stalling, in and of itself, is done for a number of reasons, a few being:
- slowplaying a big hand to induce action
- taking time to thoroughly analyze the hand and previous action in order to make the best decision you can
- to needle or tilt an opponent
- to give off a false tell
- to slowroll
So I guess the distinction is whether you belong to the camp that includes "stalling on a non-nut hand you'd never fold" as slowrolling. They would see your play as a slowroll. I do not, so IMO it's just another case of running out the clock to needle your opponent. It's annoying, but does not stoop to the level of a slowroll.
The was the point I was attempting to make.