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5TR8 FLUSH
Legend
Platinum Level
Wow, i haven't played at any live events or cash tables but now I know to take something to protect my cards. I didn't get to see this on espn, so thanks for posting the video. I feel sorry for the woman and even for the dealer because he must of felt like shit once the lady whispered in his hear she had aces. 
I'm surprised that she remain calm, I know if that happened to me the dealer and the other two men wouldnt be at the table anymore.
I'm surprised that she remain calm, I know if that happened to me the dealer and the other two men wouldnt be at the table anymore.
5TR8 FLUSH
Legend
Platinum Level
JC would of flopped quads anyways!
I feel bad for her but she should of protected her hand. I probably would of saw him reach for my cards then karate chopped his arm!
LOL, i don't know if JC would of flopped quads but i'm sure he's happy her hand was mucked.
JLtrooper
Rock Star
Silver Level
1 why doesnt this person have their hands on the cards
2 When this happens how is it not the dealers fault
3 If the cameras can see the cards the person should get them back
4 I didnt watch the footage lol
Do they for sure have holecams at this table? They usually only have those at a select number of tables.
dd_decker
Rock Star
Silver Level
You can't help these kind of things, they're always going to happen a small % of the time. No matter how aware we are, they'll still happen. Like auto accidents or any accident, we can minimize the chances (by protecting), but we're human and mistakes will be made. That's why the TD should retrieve cards from the muck in some cases where it is obvious that the cards can be identified as belonging to the player(s) in question. There will be a lot of times when nothing can be done, but fairness should rule if at all possible.
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paumarhas
Visionary
Silver Level
i saw this televised. she was in the wrong because she didn't protect her hand, her cards, period.
but who knows the dealer probably got in trouble also.
you know it's a little questionable, since when the judge came and looked at the top cards there were no A's like she said. don't know what they would've done if they were there though, guess it would be his call.
personnally i think there was something fishy going on, only because that's my nature to be a little leary of otheres i don't know.
you have to ask, "why weren't her cards right on the top?"
end of story,,,,,,next story please hehehe.
i don't feel bad for her either. gl and peace
but who knows the dealer probably got in trouble also.
you know it's a little questionable, since when the judge came and looked at the top cards there were no A's like she said. don't know what they would've done if they were there though, guess it would be his call.
personnally i think there was something fishy going on, only because that's my nature to be a little leary of otheres i don't know.
you have to ask, "why weren't her cards right on the top?"
end of story,,,,,,next story please hehehe.
i don't feel bad for her either. gl and peace
AtiFCOD
Legend
Loyaler
Ow, I feel sorry for the girl but she did mistake too. In live events theres a noise: yelling, talking, clapping etc etc. Maybe when she said allin the dealer didnt hear it because the noise. This is my theory. 2 mistakes at the same time leads to this.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Jack Daniels wins this thread.
I suspect what happened was that she was protecting her hand but she was using one of her chips to do it and when she went all in, that chip ended up in the middle with the rest of her stack, leaving nothing protecting her hand (Hence the "Did you protect your hand?" "But I'm all in!" conversation).
Without a hole card camera and a facility to go back and review the footage within a reasonable timeframe it's going to be very hard to restore this hand from the muck. Even if she tells the tournament director exactly which two aces she had and those two specific aces happen to be in the muck... I dunno, there's still scope for the rest of the table to object because they can't prove those were the two cards she had and who knows, maybe she just made it up and got lucky that those two cards had been mucked.
TD got put in a lousy position but made the right call IMO, as did the floor guy who told the dealer not to make it any worse by touching the muck.
On some of the other points:
- TDA rules state players can't request new dealers, so demanding one is just wasting your breath.
- Her cards weren't on the top because that's not how a muck works. You don't physically lift the cards off the table, you just sweep them with the rest. That means they'll pretty much never be on top.
- The table did not have hole card cameras.
I suspect what happened was that she was protecting her hand but she was using one of her chips to do it and when she went all in, that chip ended up in the middle with the rest of her stack, leaving nothing protecting her hand (Hence the "Did you protect your hand?" "But I'm all in!" conversation).
Without a hole card camera and a facility to go back and review the footage within a reasonable timeframe it's going to be very hard to restore this hand from the muck. Even if she tells the tournament director exactly which two aces she had and those two specific aces happen to be in the muck... I dunno, there's still scope for the rest of the table to object because they can't prove those were the two cards she had and who knows, maybe she just made it up and got lucky that those two cards had been mucked.
TD got put in a lousy position but made the right call IMO, as did the floor guy who told the dealer not to make it any worse by touching the muck.
On some of the other points:
- TDA rules state players can't request new dealers, so demanding one is just wasting your breath.
- Her cards weren't on the top because that's not how a muck works. You don't physically lift the cards off the table, you just sweep them with the rest. That means they'll pretty much never be on top.
- The table did not have hole card cameras.
evilbughead
Enthusiast
Silver Level
wow that is a tough break for her, But like the announcer says the player has to protect their cards , hence the "card protector" item we see some many times on peoples cards. Tough break but i am sure she has learned her lesson.
FlopIt2Me
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'm sorry that happened to you also.
But, i don't think the tourney you played in was nearly the payout that the Main Event pays.I know you were very upset, but hers was literally a dream crusher.
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postflopper
Rock Star
Silver Level
yes, it is the players' responsibility to protect their cards, but she had obviously just went all-in, pushing her chips in front, leaving her cards right where she left em. and the dealer just swooped them into the muck. pretty bullshit situation to be in, as some of u have mentioned, the standard is to have a chip as a protector, which obviously cant be used when u are all-in.
but i dont agree with how the TD even allowed the idea of restoring her cards. im all for the ruling that once the cards touch the muck, those cards are dead, no matter what the situation is.
so i guess the moral of this video is: invest in a card protector, and beware of sitting on the dealer's immediate right and left!
but i dont agree with how the TD even allowed the idea of restoring her cards. im all for the ruling that once the cards touch the muck, those cards are dead, no matter what the situation is.
so i guess the moral of this video is: invest in a card protector, and beware of sitting on the dealer's immediate right and left!
cardplayer52
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
what i don't get is how she got the rest of her chips back. was it because she would have no hand to show down if someone desided to call her? this is a leeson to protect your cards. especially right next to the dealer. and also make sure the pot gets pushed to you when you win. had the dealer push a side pot to someone i beat. only i didnt realise i was ahead in the side pot(as i lost the main pot for most of my chips) until the next hand was dealt. oops too late. worse beat ever losing a hand i won.
---the dealer clearly looks at the cards to check to see if they are protected before mucking them. and notice trans hole cards safely under his hand. and we all know AA is not a lock.
---the dealer clearly looks at the cards to check to see if they are protected before mucking them. and notice trans hole cards safely under his hand. and we all know AA is not a lock.
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Jack Daniels
Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
Wow, that's a bit extreme. The whole reason the TD has the option to try to restore cards that had been mucked is because people are human and do make mistakes. They don't always try to restore cards but they will try if it is in the best interest of the game and the most fair thing to do.Yes. She got the overage chips back that had been all in. Basically the end result for her was the equivalent of simply calling that bet that was in front of her then subsequently folding.
Absolutely! I never release my winning cards to the dealer until all the pots have been pushed correctly.
wachinpntdry
Visionary
Silver Level
certainly its the players responsibility to protect their hand......
BUT.... when your cards are behind your chips, a dealer should never be reaching in to grab them ..... not to mention her cards weren't out in an area where they should ever be assumed to be mucked by a dealer even if there were no chips pushed out in front
there is no actual bet line printed on that table, but it's commonly understood that unprotected cards in front of chips are folded, and cards behind your chips are still in play......
also, she announced an all in, that in itself should be enough for the dealer to not be grabbing her cards (dont they call a floorman over for every all in bet anyhow ?....with such procedures it's hard to believe that this could happen)
very tough break, she lost nearly 25% of her stack on the call....doesn't really seem fair.....not like the 32k was chips that were in before her shove.....she had nothing in the pot until she shoved (other than an ante if they were in effect at the time)
in the end it is her responsibility, but the dealer most definitely made a major blunder here
BUT.... when your cards are behind your chips, a dealer should never be reaching in to grab them ..... not to mention her cards weren't out in an area where they should ever be assumed to be mucked by a dealer even if there were no chips pushed out in front
there is no actual bet line printed on that table, but it's commonly understood that unprotected cards in front of chips are folded, and cards behind your chips are still in play......
also, she announced an all in, that in itself should be enough for the dealer to not be grabbing her cards (dont they call a floorman over for every all in bet anyhow ?....with such procedures it's hard to believe that this could happen)
very tough break, she lost nearly 25% of her stack on the call....doesn't really seem fair.....not like the 32k was chips that were in before her shove.....she had nothing in the pot until she shoved (other than an ante if they were in effect at the time)
in the end it is her responsibility, but the dealer most definitely made a major blunder here
stellerteller
Rock Star
Silver Level
I feel bad for her. My heart dropped when I watched it. I have to wonder how the situation went down before we joined it on Camera. I can't imagine a dealer taking the cards if he had heard her say "all in" or even if the cards were semi-guarded. Seems fishy.
Panamajoe
Legend
Silver Level
I'm pretty sure the rules are you can only play with the money you have at the table when the hand is dealt. Otherwise you would never know how "ALL" All IN is, right?
S
santa fe slim
Rock Star
Silver Level
Yes she should have protected her hand. She did leave it out a ways on the table. The dealer is probably used to players just pushing cards toward him/middle of the table just a short distance. BUT bad, bad dealer. Lack of concentration on his part. Once it is done, I don't think they can do much to correct it, however.
Glad I saw it, I alreay usually use a card protecter but have sometimes questioned whether it is really necessary. Now I will ALWAYS use one!
Glad I saw it, I alreay usually use a card protecter but have sometimes questioned whether it is really necessary. Now I will ALWAYS use one!
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