Check-raise

shortstacked

shortstacked

Visionary
please talk to me about this and I see I dont do it enough
I know is a way to maybe make a little more on a hand, but I HATE to check something and let someone see a FREE card adn have that free screw me in the end

when is it good to CHECK-RAISE and when is it bad

thanks
 
D

Dingodaddy23

Guest
in general check-raising is over-rated. Leading with your hands disguises them better and allows you to get paid off more often. Check-raising allows your opponets to get away from their hands and make big laydowns. example: you have a small PP and opponet makes a stand PF raise, you hit your set on a flop with an ace and lead out for 2/3 the pot. Opponet is holding AK and raises you and you can move in. example 2: same hand, but you check and he bets 2/3 the the pot and you put in a decent raise, he can safely assume u have TPTK beat and fold.

times when you may want to checkraise- on a big draw to buy a free card or maybe take the pot down right there, in limit to get extra bets into the middle, and throwing in a big bluff check-raise sometimes to slow down an aggressive opponet

and you are correct, you never want to try to check-raise on a draw heavy board where your opponets might be drawing to beat you, if you are going to try to check-raise you must be pretty sure your opponet is going to bet
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
Dingodaddy23 said:
example 2: same hand, but you check and he bets 2/3 the the pot and you put in a decent raise, he can safely assume u have TPTK beat and fold.

I sincerely believe that the vast majority of players online are not gonna fold that, although you still make a good point in this situation.
 
wsorbust

wsorbust

Cardschat Elite
With online players,I think it's like re-raising a small amount pre-flop. People aren't sure if you're full of B.S. either way. You're probably just as likely to be called, fold, or have someone go all-in, so be prepared, especially if you don't have a table image that would avoid bad things from happening. . .
 
shortstacked

shortstacked

Visionary
and you are correct, you never want to try to check-raise on a draw heavy board where your opponets might be drawing to beat you, if you are going to try to check-raise you must be pretty sure your opponet is going to bet

$1/$2 online lets see I have QQ and bet out $5 perflop I'm repersenting a strong hand right, lets say 1st postion after the BB

ok the flop come 7KQ
im first to act,ok heres my question do I bet alittle "or will that show strength, or bet like 2.50 ,checking weill show weekness for sure, do I check here and go over the top and take what I can get or just call to hope to make more on 4th and the riv and hope not to get screwed

thanks again forthe replays
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
In your example, is the flop rainbow, 2 to a suit, or 3 to a suit?
 
LadyHoldem

LadyHoldem

Guest
You bet out, if you don't bet the flop, I procede with caution, why is your great starting hand no longer good?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
I agree with dingo here.
I'm a strong believer in Doyle Brunson's theory of being the constant aggressor, and leading with strong hands.

Example (much like your situation, shortstacked, but i'll change some bets):
say you raise PF with QQ up to $8 ata 1/2 table. A late position smart tight/aggressive player calls your raise, and both blinds fold. So you can assume he probably has AK, KQ, JJ,TT or something of similar strength.

Flop comes KQ2. Forget about suits, as there will only be a small chance that your opponent will have the draw. (pot is at $19)

option 1: checkraise
you check, opponent bets $12 on what you assume is him hitting his king. You raise to say $36 or $30 - he will immediately reconsider his hand, and if he's a solid enough player, he will fold.
profit = $8 PF, $3 in blinds, and $12 for his bet = $23

option 2: lead out
you bet $12 - if he's a solid player, he won't just cold call with his kings here, he'll raise. Say he raises it to $30. You then come over the top (for the sake of illustration, lets say you both had $100 in front of you when the hand started) for an all in. He's now fairly pot-committed, and whether or not he calls you (pray he has KQ here!) you've got him to put much more in the middle with this option. This is especially effective if you have been very aggressive throughout the session, and is why Brunson makes so much goddamn money being a megalomaniac! :)
profit = $8 PF, $3 in blinds, his $30 raise = $41 (plus another $62 if he decides to call your all in.)

on top of the fact that you can just plain get more money in with leading out, I never like to give a free card, which is what happens all too often with an attempted check-raise.
 
JeeDub84

JeeDub84

Visionary
Shortstacked, a rainbow flop is 3 cards of different suits which have no possible draw to a flush and 2 suited is just like it says. There are 2 cards of the same suit on the board and a possible flush draw.
 
D

Dingodaddy23

Guest
here is a hand where I used the check-raise successfully




#Game No : 4563685922
***** Hand History for Game 4563685922 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $33 Buy-in Trny:25066236 Level:1 Blinds(20/40) - Wednesday, June 21, 13:12:27 ET 2006
Table Table 110272 (real money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: ctpkr ( $1900 )
Seat 5: jeffereth ( $1640 )
Seat 9: NoNines ( $1330 )
Seat 10: alchemist722 ( $2000 )
Seat 1: dhtotman ( $2200 )
Seat 2: Russia2006 ( $5090 )
Seat 7: MCBizzo ( $1940 )
Seat 8: Robertloses ( $1920 )
Seat 4: Mj23LBJ111 ( $1980 )
Trny:25066236 Level:1
Blinds(20/40)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Mj23LBJ111 [ 7h 7d ]
dhtotman calls [40].
Russia2006 folds.
ctpkr folds.
Mj23LBJ111 calls [40].
jeffereth folds.
MCBizzo raises [100].
Robertloses folds.
NoNines folds.
alchemist722 folds.
dhtotman calls [60].
Mj23LBJ111 calls [60].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, 3d, 4s ]
dhtotman checks.
Mj23LBJ111 checks.
MCBizzo bets [200].
dhtotman folds.
Mj23LBJ111 calls [200].
** Dealing Turn ** [ As ]
Mj23LBJ111 checks.
MCBizzo bets [350].
Mj23LBJ111 raises [800].
MCBizzo calls [450].
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
Mj23LBJ111 is all-In [880]
MCBizzo is all-In [840]
Mj23LBJ111 shows [ 7h, 7d ] three of a kind, sevens.
MCBizzo shows [ Ad, Td ] a pair of aces.
Mj23LBJ111 wins 40 chips from side pot #1 with three of a kind, sevens.
Mj23LBJ111 wins 4040 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, sevens.
MCBizzo finished in ninth place.
Game #4563692027 starts.



I just check-called the flop because because with that board it didn't look like villian hit, plus no draws out there, so i could safely give a free card and keep him in the betting lead. When the ace came on the turn I knew he would bet at it, and his play prior suggested that if i led into him he would just call (call station) So i check-raised him on the turn and when he called the raise i knew he was giving me his stack regardless of the river :)
 
Coryan

Coryan

Guest
I don't do it often, but...

I don't use the CR a lot, but here are a couple rare cases when I do use it:

1) I flop middle pair and a strong drawing hand (nuts flush draw), I will semi-bluff CR on occasion when against a player that I know is capable of laying down a hand. I would also prefer this to be a more passive player. My CR just added another possible way for me to win this pot. And with a passive player, I might even get a free card on the turn.

2) If I flop a total monster against a very aggressive player I will usually bet out....if they raise me, I will occasionally just call and CR them on the turn. I do this only with important considerations: a) I know my opponent will bet after my check on the turn, and b) I am not concerned with my opponent outdrawing me.

More often than not, I simply lead out when I have a good hand. I find that players often just assume that I have nothing and raise it anyway. Yesterday I lead out on the flop of Q-9-8 with JT and two players raised/allin and another called after me! The best hand of the bunch was KQ! So, I usually just bet my good hands and forget the tricky plays...but occasionally, I make the CR for strategic reasons.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
I checkraise the flop to protect weak hands.

I checkraise the turn to extract value.

I checkraise the river to make myself feel cool.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
oh yeah thats another thing...check-raising in LHE is much different than check-raising in NLH.

I'm sure Fredrik could give you some pointers (as he listed above, especially #3) on how check-raising is a valuable tool in LHE.
 
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