Bankroll Management Question

[Kiloyel]

Word to the community. I am a new member to this site/forum and this is actually my first post. I stick pretty strictly to a few bankroll management guidelines that I've adopted from Ferguson.

http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/ChrisFerguson/100
It's a short simple article but it's helped my bankroll management a lot. Maybe can help someone else too.

Anyway, my real problem is that I don't really have a gauge of when to stop playing. I'll end up losing 15-20% of my bankroll in one session after re-buying the table 3-4 times. I only buy-in to a table with 5% of my total bankroll. So if I lose that session would it be recommended to stop for the day? I guess the real question is: How much of your bankroll do you risk before you stop playing?

I'd like to see some feedback about how some of you manage your bankrolls to continue to be a winning player.

Thanks

 

[steak vegita]

Thanks pal, a nice artical. And yes if I lost another 5% of my bankroll then i'd stop for the day. Taking it from past experiance if you don't Your play will become shi**y and you will have a horrible downswing.

 

[SavagePenguin]

It is situational.

If you sit at a table and get stacked three times, is it because you're getting it all in good and getting sucked out on, or are you misplaying hands?

If some villain is just throwing chips around and is getting lucky, there's money to be made by staying as long as you aren't tilting because of your own losses. I mean, the fish now has more chips to win. He's going to give them to someone at the table eventually, so it might as well be you.

So basically, if you are in a profitable situation and have the desire to stay, stay. If you are steaming and want to stay, show some self control and leave.

Personally, if I lose several buy-ins I'll start to play different. That means I should leave. Ideally one shouldn't ever be looking to catch up. There is no "catching up." You just play for what you can make in any given situation. Previous losses are not losses, they are information. All that matters is what you know, and current chip stacks.

 

[joeaugie]

Buying in for 5% of your bankroll means having 20 buy-ins. Ferguson said this was his MAX LIMIT. I have read from many successful players that say around 40-50 buy-ins is much more reasonable and less stressful. Getting stacked and losing 5% of your roll sucks.

Moving up when you have 20 buy-ins is fine for people who are very skilled and can handle the variance and deal with moving up and down in limits when necessary (aka Jesus Ferguson). For the rest of us, still learning the game, 40-50 buy-ins as a minimum per level is much more prudent.

Keep this in mind...Ferguson admitted to moving down after being up to a certain level numerous times in his 0-10,000 quest.

I like the idea of taking your time at each level and making sure you are comfortable beating it. Most people have no clue at all how bad variance can be. If top level players have 100-150K hand break even streaks but are long-term (1million +) 3ptBB/100 winners...well it's one thing to just read about 10-20 buy-in swings and another entirely to experience it yourself. It's a psychological nightmare. You'll question your skill, alter your play, and likely play even worse.

Avoid that all together buy being a bankroll nit. 40-50 buyins minimum.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[mexican]

Interesting points

I think you all bring up some very interesting points about the game.

 

[RoyalFish]

I'd like to see some feedback about how some of you manage your bankrolls to continue to be a winning player.

Well, first, are you a winning player? If not, then there is no BRM. BRM is just an algorithmic approach to minimzing your Risk of Ruin (in other words, going busto). Your chance of losing all your money is 100% unless you have a positive win rate.

I have never lost 4 buy ins at a single table. I usually just quit playing when I'm sleepy. I'm not happy if I'm down anything over 2 buy ins over about 1,000 hands (6 tables, 3 hours, ~60 hands/hour).

I'd say you should quit playing any time you're not playing well enough to win. Tilted? Quit. Sleepy? Quit. Your SO complaining because you're playing with cards instead of her (or him)? Quit.

You should quit if you're losing and don't know why. Take some time and analyze why. I played just over breakeven yesterday, saved only by a good run at the end. I have not played a single hand of poker today. I wrote a fair bit of analysis code and might post an in depth analysis of the 444 incidences in my database where someone other than me was set mining and went to showdown.

You're playing the 20BI rule. You know the consequence of that, right? If you lose anything, you're not properly rolled for the limit anymore. By that logic, you don't quit because you're down 3-4 BI, you quit because you have 16 BI for the limit. Or move down. I wouldn't just keep playing that limit, because a repeat performance will just about halve your bankroll. This is a Bad Thing(tm).

Oh, the other thing is table selection. If you're getting killed, maybe it's a bad table for you. Everybody has a style they play best against, and worst against. If you're at a table full of people who play in a way that you're just not successful against, stop.

RF

 

[Pafkata]

20 BI is the minimum you must have to play certain limit without the risk to go busto if you got unlucky few times. People usually give a shot at higher limits with 20-25 BI and if they lose - they go back to their normal levels.

It's normal to have like 3 sessions in a row with 2-3 BI down and then you can have a winning session of 5BI + That's why losing up to 10 BI shouldn't half your bankroll and it's better to have like 40-50 BI.

 

[blackmax]

If i lost 5-20% of my bankroll it a day for me.At some point u have to know it's not your day or your vanishing bankroll should let you know.I usually try to follow the 2% rule and quite honestly sometimes i exceed that rule as well.Point is ....it's ok to splurge but not at that rate and not for as many tables u seem to play in a day.

 

[dwolfg]

I suggest having a range of blinds for each level in addition to the 2% rule. Do not move up to the next level until you are in the middle of the range. That way if you have a few bad sessions you can still play at that level, while maintaining brm, and can give you a chance to determine whether you are just having a bad run or you cannot beat the game at that level.