which one do you play? Which one is better for you?

Ive never tried playing zoom, I like to talk and get to know the poker players in my table but thats just my opinion.

I like regular quiet poker at 1-2 tables. In zoom I played a couple of times I didn’t like it, each time new players, a new table. I prefer the classics.

I think they lend themselves to two different player types. When playing Zoom, you need to have a more balanced fundamental understanding of the game. In regular table games, you can be a little more comfortable playing a more exploitative strategy because you’re sat down with the play for a longer, strait stint, and generally the outright grinders will play more Zoom because they can get more volume which is how cash grinders make more money, so this tends to naturally filter out some of the better players out of regular table games. This is very general tho and minimizes as you climb up in stakes, but generally the same player would have a higher BB/100 winrate at a regular table and a higher hourly at a Zoom table

Zoom on microgaming it's max a 50 person field so you can take notes on everyone and play an exploitative game.

I mainly play regular tables. In my opinion Zoom games play overly tight, and with the high rake in the micros they are essentially unbeatable from 10NL and up. This I can not prove of course, but I would love to see someone show a grafh, where they actually beat 10NL Zoom on Pokerstars over a substantial sample like 200k hands. I always smile, when I see someone post videos on Youtube about "crushing" some Zoom game. People post their sunshine runs and wipe the rest under the carpet.

Originally Posted by EarnDAStack

This is very general tho and minimizes as you climb up in stakes, but generally the same player would have a higher BB/100 winrate at a regular table and a higher hourly at a Zoom table

I will stick my neck out here and say, that I think, the vast majority of players have a lower hourly winrate at Zoom. More volume means more rake, so even if your hourly winrate before rake is higher, your hourly winrate after rake might well be lower. This by the way also goes for excessive multitabling.

For this whole “trade winrate for volume” idea to work out, the rake need to be negligible compared to the winrate of a typical winning player. Which is absolutely not the case in modern online cash games from 10NL and up. The rake is often 10 BB/100, while realistic long term after rake winrates are low single digits.

Originally Posted by _xgeb_

which one do you play? Which one is better for you?

Personally I prefer zoom . There is more action here!

my preference is regular, played some far and felt little uncomfortable, maybe not ta acclimated to the dynamics!

Originally Posted by fundiver199

I will stick my neck out here and say, that I think, the vast majority of players have a lower hourly winrate at Zoom. More volume means more rake, so even if your hourly winrate before rake is higher, your hourly winrate after rake might well be lower. This by the way also goes for excessive multitabling.

For this whole “trade winrate for volume” idea to work out, the rake need to be negligible compared to the winrate of a typical winning player. Which is absolutely not the case in modern online cash games from 10NL and up. The rake is often 10 BB/100, while realistic long term after rake winrates are low single digits.

Yeah I think you might be right actually. I've been watching a lot of twitch streamers who are doing cash leader boards and I hear them mention how some players will be losing players, but make money from leaderboard payouts. I wouldn't be surprised if more players than people think are actually not profitable players and make their livings off of essentially promotions. But I guess the flip side of that might just be that most people don't make money playing poker anyway.

In zoom poker, you must stricly follow bankroll managment.
In a regular cash game, bankroll managment may be softer, but don't forget about it.

I like regular tables more.

Zoom play due to a larger volume of the game! Although profit for regular tables above!

Regular cash games I find are more profitable for myself. I find you get a sense of the players traits, but with zoom your constantly playing new players and can’t really predict what they’ll do.

Originally Posted by Steve Deeble

Regular cash games I find are more profitable for myself. I find you get a sense of the players traits, but with zoom your constantly playing new players and can’t really predict what they’ll do.

I think exactly the same.

I love action more - choose zoom

I play both. just have to tweak strategies a bit when playing cash than zoom.

I tried it once in ZOOM- some crap. For me, the usual one is better .

Zoom is very addicting. It's difficult to play other types of games after playing too much zoom.

Originally Posted by nghoffman

Zoom is very addicting. It's difficult to play other types of games after playing too much zoom.

I dont mind Zoom for the playing experience. There is no going on waiting lists, no waiting for the blinds to come around, which is certainly nice. Its also nice to be able to fully concentrate on one hand at a time and still get decent volume, which you can do by playing a single Zoom table. On the downside reads and dynamics are missing, so its a much more mechanic and simple kind of poker.

What really made me move away from Zoom was, that when I reached 10NL and 16NL, there was just to much difference in my winrate between regular tables and Zoom tables for me to ignore. Some of that might have been variance, and some due to the fact, that I mainly played regular full ring tables and not 6-max.

But at the end of the day I saw no reason to continue playing a game, where my results were way worse, and where I was actually losing money. It also helped me realise, how important it is to find soft games by table selecting, playing at the right time of day, playing on the right poker site etc.

The simple fact is, that we win in poker, when our opponents make mistakes, and the only way to win big (and overcome high rake) is to play against someone, who make big mistakes. And these players are just not found in Zoom games. For starters according to my database preflop limping occur less than half as often in Zoom. And since "raising against limp" generate way more profit than open raising, again according to my data-base, this absolutely matter.

So many people get obsessed about perfecting their ranges in every single spot, and if you plan on playing 500NL online, you absolutely need to. But for all us micro or small stakes players, who have to content with high rake, there is simply no substitute for playing against those fish, who will limp-call preflop with K8 offsuit and then call us all the way down with second or third pair. Its not fancy or glorious, but this is where, the profit comes from.

Originally Posted by fundiver199

I dont mind Zoom for the playing experience. There is no going on waiting lists, no waiting for the blinds to come around, which is certainly nice. Its also nice to be able to fully concentrate on one hand at a time and still get decent volume, which you can do by playing a single Zoom table. On the downside reads and dynamics are missing, so its a much more mechanic and simple kind of poker.

What really made me move away from Zoom was, that when I reached 10NL and 16NL, there was just to much difference in my winrate between regular tables and Zoom tables for me to ignore. Some of that might have been variance, and some due to the fact, that I mainly played regular full ring tables and not 6-max.

But at the end of the day I saw no reason to continue playing a game, where my results were way worse, and where I was actually losing money. It also helped me realise, how important it is to find soft games by table selecting, playing at the right time of day, playing on the right poker site etc.

The simple fact is, that we win in poker, when our opponents make mistakes, and the only way to win big (and overcome high rake) is to play against someone, who make big mistakes. And these players are just not found in Zoom games. For starters according to my database preflop limping occur less than half as often in Zoom. And since "raising against limp" generate way more profit than open raising, again according to my data-base, this absolutely matter.

So many people get obsessed about perfecting their ranges in every single spot, and if you plan on playing 500NL online, you absolutely need to. But for all us micro or small stakes players, who have to content with high rake, there is simply no substitute for playing against those fish, who will limp-call preflop with K8 offsuit and then call us all the way down with second or third pair. Its not fancy or glorious, but this is where, the profit comes from.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I feel identified with your thinking. The zoom is very mechanical in the small and difficult limits, not to say impossible, to take notes of the players and thus be able to exploit them and take advantage of them. Recently I am entering the world of cash, but I always got better results at regular tables because I was able to identify villain game styles and I knew how to exploit them and keep their chips. Another thing, in small limits I was better at max 6 tables than at 9 .. since we usually take surprises at 9 because there are many players who enter with very bad hands.

Personally I play both , apparently zoom is way more fun especially for the impatient players who chase action no matter what. I don't know if micro limits zoom is a good place for totally amateurs because poker needs some ''waiting''.I mean you can't play any 2 cards and zooms doesn't ''teach'' you that compared to a regular table.

Also in zoom you gonna need more time-hands to start labeling players in orer to adjust your play in some future spots.

Originally Posted by nghoffman

Zoom is very addicting. It's difficult to play other types of games after playing too much zoom.

no not at all. all you need is some adjustment. for example: you need to know is understand the nature of zoom and adjust to the slower nature of the normal games. the getting hooked part is you yourself not being aware of what is going on.

The Zoom you see a greater amount of hands and play with different players and have a greater chance of winning.
The regular game sees a smaller amount of hands and the players are fixed.

Short answer:

Zoom is better for a hardcore grinder who wants to put in a ton of hands and get to the long run faster. Zoom is also good for a recreational player who just wants the convenience of sitting down and playing right away.

Regular tables are better for somebody who wants to table select, have a higher winrate and ultimately reduce their variance.

For me personally, I prefer regular tables, but it is an individual decision. You can find my complete guide to Zoom poker strategy for 2020 right here:

https://www.blackrain79.com/2015/07/...ial-guide.html

Originally Posted by Nathan Williams

Short answer:

Zoom is better for a hardcore grinder who wants to put in a ton of hands and get to the long run faster. Zoom is also good for a recreational player who just wants the convenience of sitting down and playing right away.

Regular tables are better for somebody who wants to table select, have a higher winrate and ultimately reduce their variance.

For me personally, I prefer regular tables, but it is an individual decision. You can find my complete guide to Zoom poker strategy for 2020 right here:

https://www.blackrain79.com/2015/07/zoom-poker-strategy-essential-guide.html

Nathan, excellent article. I read it all. And I learned many new things. I write your page to continue reading. Tremendous photo playing on the beach, wanting to be like this! haha Greetings genius!

Just want to add, that Zoom does not exist in live poker, and in online tournaments its a rare format, which is usually capped to very low buyins like 1-2$. So if you see online cash games as a way to prepare for tournaments or live games, then it does not make a lot of sense to spend time developing a strategy for Zoom.

I think the zoom is better because faster and you can play more table !

i like both but i play regular poker more than zoom

Originally Posted by _xgeb_

which one do you play? Which one is better for you?

I currently play zoom tables because I like to get a lot of hands in. I find that when one has a very solid strategy that doesn't require reads on their opponents to be profitable then zoom is great because you can get in 4x the volume you can on regular tables. It's also great for grinding out a lot of rakeback and just printing your EV edge over a ton of hands.

That being said, for a very long time I preferred playing regular tables for 2 reasons.
#1 I could get better reads on my opponents and a feel for their play style
#2 I could play at a calmer pace (zoom is quite fast with multiple tables and is kind of like riding a big wave)

On regular tables I can earn a higher winrate because of all the added information and for the fact I have more time to think thru my decisions. That being said, my hourly is certainly higher on zoom despite the lower winrate because I get way more volume in.

My mind has to work harder, and so my sessions are shorter, but that's just the way I stay balanced and get the most out of the time I put in.

Here's a video I made on the topic a little while ago, hope you enjoy it!

You Tube

Originally Posted by Evan Jarvis

I currently play zoom tables because I like to get a lot of hands in. I find that when one has a very solid strategy that doesn't require reads on their opponents to be profitable then zoom is great because you can get in 4x the volume you can on regular tables. It's also great for grinding out a lot of rakeback and just printing your EV edge over a ton of hands.

That being said, for a very long time I preferred playing regular tables for 2 reasons.
#1 I could get better reads on my opponents and a feel for their play style
#2 I could play at a calmer pace (zoom is quite fast with multiple tables and is kind of like riding a big wave)

On regular tables I can earn a higher winrate because of all the added information and for the fact I have more time to think thru my decisions. That being said, my hourly is certainly higher on zoom despite the lower winrate because I get way more volume in.

My mind has to work harder, and so my sessions are shorter, but that's just the way I stay balanced and get the most out of the time I put in.

Here's a video I made on the topic a little while ago, hope you enjoy it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmNGXkPY_5I

Thanks, very clear information. And another question, how do you identify the play styles of the players at cash tables?

Originally Posted by _xgeb_

Thanks, very clear information. And another question, how do you identify the play styles of the players at cash tables?

Invest in a program like pokertracker

You Tube

And use the tactics in this video as well

Originally Posted by Evan Jarvis

Invest in a program like pokertracker

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdBrbsrmzoI&index=17&list=PLBrNnyWekagMpkljGANXALnZcmLanFwHU

And use the tactics in this video as well

Excellent video !! It helped me a lot. I will incorporate them to mark the players and thus be able to exploit them even more. Greetings, thanks for your time

To play zoom is useful for reactions.10 to 1 I think.

I prefer zoom type when there is available, but I play and the regular too. Zoom is faster and has more action!

Depends. For me I prefer Blitz on ACR over the regular tables because wait lists are ridiculous and there are only ever at most 3-4 tables going at 200NL, whereas the Blitz Pool usually has over 50 entries and IMO isn't any more difficult than the regular tables. On Ignition I hate the Zone games because you have 15 seconds with 0 time bank and the complete anonymity makes it impossible to exploitatively do anything.

I do recognize that there are advantages to having quantity when it comes to the amount of poker hands you play in a given session, But in my opinion I like to stick to regular cash games because all it takes is one hand for your entire Stack to be eliminated.because of this, in Zoom poker you can lose multiple Stacks very quickly because you see a larger number of hands in a shorter time frame.

Considering all that, I would stick to playing regular cash games unless you have a bankroll of at least 100 buyins for the stakes you are playing. this way your entire bankroll would not be affected negatively too much if you lost several hands for your stack in Zoom poker.

cash is more explotative
zoom is more hands per hour, if you win nl2 play zoom

i enjoy 2 zoom tables when i play , i find it gives me enough action to not get bored

Prefer regular game but sometimes play a zoom. This kind of game is much more quicker. Don't have to wait for your queue.

I always lose money at zoom, where I usually break even or make money in cash games. I'm not sure the reasoning, but zoom is just too much for me.

It's a bit overwhelming with the speed at which it plays, and since you can't get a read on the players it's hard to play anything other than ABC poker. And ABC poke is a losing game with a high rake.

Zoom because as you go up the limits, it becomes more difficult to find regular tables.

Recently i play cash zoom more times. When i have short time to play is a nice option! Have so many actions, but is more dificult to read your opponents and bluff..

Originally Posted by Kmason531

Depends. For me I prefer Blitz on ACR over the regular tables because wait lists are ridiculous and there are only ever at most 3-4 tables going at 200NL, whereas the Blitz Pool usually has over 50 entries and IMO isn't any more difficult than the regular tables.

That makes sense, and with only 50 players in the pool its easy to get reads even at fast fold tables, since you will see the same people again and again. But if you play micro or low stakes on PokerStars, then the Zoom pools are huge, and its not exactly like, there is any shortage of regular tables running.

zoom for sure

I always like cash games between the zoom,cash are more relaxing

zoom if available. more hands = getting better faster, and also more fun :P

I like the action of Zoom, but I honestly win more playing regular cash. After I win at some regular cash tables I think I can just multiply it by playing zoom and I always end up losing in the long run.