Win rate for different positions

[Samweis3]

Hello Cash Game community,

After several years of a break I started to play poker and in particular cash game (NLH 6 max Rush & Cash at GG) again.

They have their own statistic side and I was very surprised about the distribution of winnings/losses over the different positions.

I played 8450 hands so far on NL2, i lost in total 12,62 Dollars, which makes a rate of approx -7BB/100. This is not nice but my All-in EV is only slightly negative, so I still assume that I am on a regular path to become a winning player soon.

Now to the stats for different positions:

BB: -23,41$ / saw approx. 22% of the flops and went into 78 showdowns

SB- -1,43 $ / saw approx. 19,3 % of the flops and went into 65 showdowns

BU: 20,10$ / saw approx. 13,8% of flops and went into 61 showdowns

Other positions with 10-13% flops and less showdowns. Interesting to see that I played more UTG than UTG+1(MP in 6 max). I also lost nearly 7$ on CO.

So over a sample size of nearly 8500 hands I played only profitable at Button and MP,
Saw in total approx. 15% of the flops and went into showdown in 4,13 %. VPIP is unfortunately not available in the stats but usually between 22-26 in each session. So I guess in average 24 should be realistic figure.

Looking forward for comments about these stats and any advices you could give based on the stats provided.

By the way here my top and flop 3 starting hands:

AA: 33 times / +11,92 $
JJ: 43 Times / +7,58 $
A6o: 66 times / + 4,61 $ (one big 3 handed pot with A high flush)

99: 39 times/ -6,48 $
66: 40 times/ -4,85 $
AQo & AJo: 89/70 times/ -4$ & -3,98 $

Based on all that, should I further tighten up my ranges? Any advice on middle pocket pairs?

 

[Samweis3]

One additional fact:

I am profitable with 43 starting hands out of 169. I think this figure is Ok, given to the fact that you fold many poor hands in the blinds and make a minus over longer period of time.

However with Ax o I am only profitable with AA, A6o and A4o and for suites Aces with AJs, A8s, A7s, A5s, A4s, A3s.

It looks to me that I really need to improve my game with starting hands like A10 o/s. I either play to aggressively with them or are a calling station?

 

[blueskies]

See more flops frm btn and fewer frm the blinds. Do the starting hands mean you simply were dealt those hands? I.e., you did not necessarily put money in the pot holding those hands right?

Ace rags offsuit try to not play those.

The sample s still too small to make a conclusion on profitability. It makes no sense that A6os is one of your most profitable hands with an ace. As you described, one lucky win inflated the profits.

 

[Station_Master]

Post your bb/100 from each position as $ amounts dont mean too much. Without accurately doing the maths it seems your bb/100 from BB is bad. Should be -30/100 or so at 6max. It probably means you are calling too much and you certainly seem to be seeing too many showdowns from the BB

 

[Samweis3]

See more flops frm btn and fewer frm the blinds.

I would say I am min- raising quite a few more hands on BTN, but if I get re-raised (overbet) from players with VPIP below 18, I quite frequently let it go if I have no super strong hand like AQs+ or 1010+. I guess this is the reason for 13% flops on BTN.

I will Look through more hands in BB to see where is my problems. Either I need 4bet more against 3 bet from CO/BTN or change my calling range.

Do the starting hands mean you simply were dealt those hands? I.e., you did not necessarily put money in the pot holding those hands right?
Yes, I was dealt these hands, some of them just steal blinds and did not get any calls even to min raise.

Ace rags offsuit try to not play those.

The sample s still too small to make a conclusion on profitability. It makes no sense that A6os is one of your most profitable hands with an ace. As you described, one lucky win inflated the profits.

I try to stick to opening ranges. I fold a lot of them in UTG and MP

Yes I am building up my stats and will update again with approx 20,000 played

 

[Samweis3]

Post your bb/100 from each position as $ amounts dont mean too much. Without accurately doing the maths it seems your bb/100 from BB is bad. Should be -30/100 or so at 6max. It probably means you are calling too much and you certainly seem to be seeing too many showdowns from the BB

I will do later today. It is easy maths and I will prepare.

As mentioned I will definitely look into all bigger hands played in BB to review and study my weaknesses

 

[Station_Master]

I will do later today. It is easy maths and I will prepare.

As mentioned I will definitely look into all bigger hands played in BB to review and study my weaknesses

Your hud should tell you. Note it's not as easy as dividing the number of hands by 6 as there will often be sit outs or not a full table, but it is ok as an approximation

 

[Samweis3]

I do not have an individual HUD, as I am playing on my phone at GG App. They offer some statistics from their end. As it is 6max Rush&Cash, which is equal to Zooom on PS there are no empty chairs and sit outs. The only thing which can happen that someone lose connection while sitting on you table but then he will not appear at another table again. So /6 is pretty accurate.

 

[Samweis3]

BB: -23,41$ / saw approx. 22% of the flops and went into 78 showdowns

—> -83 BB / 100 hands in BB

SB- -1,43 $ / saw approx. 19,3 % of the flops and went into 65 showdowns

—> -5 BB / 100 hands in SB

BU: 20,10$ / saw approx. 13,8% of flops and went into 61 showdowns

—> +71 BB / 100 hands in BTN

These numbers are really shocking, I really need to look through all 1450 BB hands…

 

[Poker Orifice]

When I see you ask "How should I be playing my middle pairs... or ATo?"
I'd suggest it is near impossible to answer a question like this because it is SITUATIONAL. a.k.a. 'it depends'

I think you'd be much better off spending the time on Hand History reviews (posting, asking questions, reading other's, etc.) vs. attempting to come to conclusions (analysing) regarding GGPoker's stats.

 

[nabmom]

+1 (or +100) to posting hand histories and looking at specific situations. I'd also suggest you take a look at anything that @Nathan Williams posts here or on his blog(AKA BlackRain79). For what it's worth, position is directly connected to your winrate. You should be losing money in the blinds overall and having better winrates from the later positions.

 

[LaNimmer]

Hello Cash Game community,

After several years of a break I started to play poker and in particular cash game (NLH 6 max Rush & Cash at GG) again.

They have their own statistic side and I was very surprised about the distribution of winnings/losses over the different positions.

I played 8450 hands so far on NL2, i lost in total 12,62 Dollars, which makes a rate of approx -7BB/100. This is not nice but my All-in EV is only slightly negative, so I still assume that I am on a regular path to become a winning player soon.

Now to the stats for different positions:

BB: -23,41$ / saw approx. 22% of the flops and went into 78 showdowns

SB- -1,43 $ / saw approx. 19,3 % of the flops and went into 65 showdowns

BU: 20,10$ / saw approx. 13,8% of flops and went into 61 showdowns

Other positions with 10-13% flops and less showdowns. Interesting to see that I played more UTG than UTG+1(MP in 6 max). I also lost nearly 7$ on CO.

So over a sample size of nearly 8500 hands I played only profitable at Button and MP,
Saw in total approx. 15% of the flops and went into showdown in 4,13 %. VPIP is unfortunately not available in the stats but usually between 22-26 in each session. So I guess in average 24 should be realistic figure.

Looking forward for comments about these stats and any advices you could give based on the stats provided.

By the way here my top and flop 3 starting hands:

AA: 33 times / +11,92 $
JJ: 43 Times / +7,58 $
A6o: 66 times / + 4,61 $ (one big 3 handed pot with A high flush)

99: 39 times/ -6,48 $
66: 40 times/ -4,85 $
AQo & AJo: 89/70 times/ -4$ & -3,98 $

Based on all that, should I further tighten up my ranges? Any advice on middle pocket pairs?

I have no advice as I am not experienced enough, I'm just interested in your CO number. Do you have any conclusions about this?

 

[Station_Master]

BB: -23,41$ / saw approx. 22% of the flops and went into 78 showdowns

—> -83 BB / 100 hands in BB

SB- -1,43 $ / saw approx. 19,3 % of the flops and went into 65 showdowns

—> -5 BB / 100 hands in SB

BU: 20,10$ / saw approx. 13,8% of flops and went into 61 showdowns

—> +71 BB / 100 hands in BTN

These numbers are really shocking, I really need to look through all 1450 BB hands…

It's a relatively small sample but it suggests you are not playing BB well. As a start it's probably worth checking you are playing preflop right versus GTO charts. 22% of flops doesnt sound that high so perhaps you are not defending enough, especially v SB and BU

 

[dreamer13]

It is impossible to say exactly how many hands you should play from each position because the percentage changes depending on how the game plays out. Remember, up to nine players can act after you and can contribute their “two cents” after your raise. Alternatively, if everyone folded before you on the button, you will have a huge advantage because only two players can stop you from stealing the blinds.

 

[Samweis3]

It is impossible to say exactly how many hands you should play from each position because the percentage changes depending on how the game plays out. Remember, up to nine players can act after you and can contribute their “two cents” after your raise. Alternatively, if everyone folded before you on the button, you will have a huge advantage because only two players can stop you from stealing the blinds.

I am playing 6 max and know very verloren about positions in Poker

 

[Samweis3]

It's a relatively small sample but it suggests you are not playing BB well. As a start it's probably worth checking you are playing preflop right versus GTO charts. 22% of flops doesnt sound that high so perhaps you are not defending enough, especially v SB and BU

I will try to find some time this week to go through all BB spots. Unfortunately GG stats do not offer a filter function by position :/

But anyhow I will go through each losing hand with -10 BB or more firstly and will also pay more attention to Bb play in my study and in my play in the next days.

I certainly also need to study more GTO for post flop play as I guess that I deny equity in some spots and east money in others.

Thanks for all the input

 

[Samweis3]

+1 (or +100) to posting hand histories and looking at specific situations. I'd also suggest you take a look at anything that @Nathan Williams posts here or on his blog(AKA BlackRain79). For what it's worth, position is directly connected to your winrate. You should be losing money in the blinds overall and having better winrates from the later positions.

I will post more hands in next Week, luckily we have public holidays starting from Friday and lasting for an entire week. I will also try to get some footprint into the weekly German Leaderboard in that week. I assume I need 50000+ hands for that which would also bring more sample size. Hope my BR supports me on this.


What I see is that many regular player at the top of the stack list with 15$+ have a very low VPIP of sometimes even below 10. I really wonder whether this is the right thing in micros at GG. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Poker Orifice]

What I see is that many regular player at the top of the stack list with 15$+ have a very low VPIP of sometimes even below 10. I really wonder whether this is the right thing in micros at GG. Any thoughts on that?

What is a 'top of the stack list'?

 

[Poker Orifice]

fwiw, I'm a micro stakes cash game player. I typically play 25nl but also 10nl & even 5nl at times when I feel like it. (and sometimes higher).
I've put in over 4 million hands in ZOOM style 6max (but have played all sorts of other stuff as well). Reading your first post and trying to surmise something from it all, I really just think you could be using the time much more efficiently. What I'm saying is, most of the #'s and stuff you were mentioning, I don't even have a clue how that would be relevant &/or necessary to beat the games.
I also believe that many people misquote GTO principles and the purpose of such. ie. GTO is irrelevant when playing 2nl. At the lower stakes you want to focus your attention on exploiting the other players tendancies and weaknesses... even if that makes yourself exploitable (Because it doesn't matter). This is how you'll get a decent winrate. (fwiw, the players you're playing against on 2nl tables are not playing GTO... so worrying about playing GTO vs. them is not optimal).
gl on the journey!

 

[Samweis3]

I do not fully understand what you want to say. I should tighten up unless I have a very specific read on a villain?

I am certain that many players do not play GTO, but certainly there are players with x10 buy ins and more. Some of them with very low VPIP some of them with VPIP of about 28 which is pretty much according to GTO.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-and-wins-46/rags-riches-256652/page-8#post-6797270

In my last post there are some very annoying hands which keep me loosing. Any advice as a winning zoom player?

 

[D3STR0Y3RaJ]

I do not fully understand what you want to say. I should tighten up unless I have a very specific read on a villain?

I am certain that many players do not play GTO, but certainly there are players with x10 buy ins and more. Some of them with very low VPIP some of them with VPIP of about 28 which is pretty much according to GTO.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-goals-challenges-and-wins-46/rags-riches-256652/page-8#post-6797270

In my last post there are some very annoying hands which keep me loosing. Any advice as a winning zoom player?

GTO on NL2(LOL).

 

[D3STR0Y3RaJ]

Hello Cash Game community,

After several years of a break I started to play poker and in particular cash game (NLH 6 max Rush & Cash at GG) again.

They have their own statistic side and I was very surprised about the distribution of winnings/losses over the different positions.

I played 8450 hands so far on NL2, i lost in total 12,62 Dollars, which makes a rate of approx -7BB/100. This is not nice but my All-in EV is only slightly negative, so I still assume that I am on a regular path to become a winning player soon.

Now to the stats for different positions:

BB: -23,41$ / saw approx. 22% of the flops and went into 78 showdowns

SB- -1,43 $ / saw approx. 19,3 % of the flops and went into 65 showdowns

BU: 20,10$ / saw approx. 13,8% of flops and went into 61 showdowns

Other positions with 10-13% flops and less showdowns. Interesting to see that I played more UTG than UTG+1(MP in 6 max). I also lost nearly 7$ on CO.

So over a sample size of nearly 8500 hands I played only profitable at Button and MP,
Saw in total approx. 15% of the flops and went into showdown in 4,13 %. VPIP is unfortunately not available in the stats but usually between 22-26 in each session. So I guess in average 24 should be realistic figure.

Looking forward for comments about these stats and any advices you could give based on the stats provided.

By the way here my top and flop 3 starting hands:

AA: 33 times / +11,92 $
JJ: 43 Times / +7,58 $
A6o: 66 times / + 4,61 $ (one big 3 handed pot with A high flush)

99: 39 times/ -6,48 $
66: 40 times/ -4,85 $
AQo & AJo: 89/70 times/ -4$ & -3,98 $

Based on all that, should I further tighten up my ranges? Any advice on middle pocket pairs?

Can u share some of your hands played on BB?I think you protect too much on BB.