When to re-raise preflop, or raise flop and later?

NineLions

NineLions

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As is apparent from a couple of the HH threads I've started lately,

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...o-you-raise-define-your-opponents-hand-82263/
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-strategy-33/qq-co-lag-raise-utg-easy-play-81224/

I'm beginning to realize I need a better idea when to re-raise preflop, as well as when to raise bets on the flop or later.

Here's a summary for myself that I've come up with. I'd appreciate any additions/corrections or general comments.

Note that these are not reasons for preflop raising or flop/later betting, only for raising these same bets. I'm looking at the re-raise/call or raise/call borderline rather than the check/call/fold borderline.


Reasons/times to re-raise preflop
- if you think you can get the other person(s) to fold
- AA or KK, to define the hand/attempt to get all the money in preflop
- QQ, JJ, AK, to define the hand. This assumes you have preflop betting position (later position than the raiser, or in the blinds). If you're the original raiser, what do you call a re-raise with?

Reasons/times NOT to re-raise preflop

- Opponent is superaggressive and you don't have AA/KK. He may re-re-raise and push you off QQ/JJ/AK with lesser holdings so reraising won't help to defiine his hand, although it would help define your hand if you decide to call.

Reasons/times or raise, flop or later
- if you think you can get the other person to fold
- if you've hit the flop and you think the other person is bluffing/c-betting
- when you think you're ahead and the flop is dangerous, ie. flopped a set and there are flush or straight draws

Reasons/times NOT to raise, flop or later
- if you have a so-so hand with drawing possibilities, so you want to see cards as cheaply as possible
- villain is aggressive and you have a monster, so you let him bet into you until the river (rope-a-dope)
- you have the best hand but there are no obvious draws so you think re-raising will cause your opponent to fold, thereby losing later bets that you might collect.


btw, this is for playing TAG, NLHE, primarily ring game focus since strategy-wise I usually start from there and modify for tourneys.

Anything that I'm missing? For example, if you're in the blinds, are you more likely to re-raise preflop since you're going to get stuck playing OOP?
 
Stefanicov

Stefanicov

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Just one point when are we folding qq to a super agressor:confused:
 
beardyian

beardyian

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- you have the best hand but there are no obvious draws so you think re-raising will cause your opponent to fold, thereby losing later bets that you might collect.

I always (usually :), sometimes) bet when having the best hand, even if it is a small feeler bet as it can
1, build the pot*
2, let you know better where you are by seeing how your oppo reacts.
3, Thins the table and lessening the suck-out chances.

*building the pot when you have the best hand can be especially sweet when you hand is not only just called but goes on to improve (pp > a set, 2 pair > a boat) and of course you oppo now has chips in the middle as well to protect.

So sometimes especially in cash games ive found a small feeler bet can many things.
1. Aggressive - showing you are prepared to play your hand
2. Defensive - Making the fringe hands step aside making it safer with any loose hands hopefully out of the way.
3. Profitable - Building the pot, to increase the profit and cover any draws hit / missed.

Some (many :)) may not agree but every so often this stratagy works extremly well it of course depends on the type of table etc, but so does every poker thought out there :D


Extra Thought about re-raising
When you have top pair and are raised, if your kicker is also strong but there are raggy numbers on board, i like to test the ground with a firm re-raise,
because there is nothing worse than raising with a good hand only to watch someone win with 2 pair later on with a rag turn or river :mad:.
Show them your hand is stronger early on and it is going to cost them if they want to go hunting that 2nd pair :)
 
NineLions

NineLions

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Just one point when are we folding qq to a super agressor:confused:

I dunno, are we thinking his range for re-re-raising is so wide that we're calling? Or getting all our chips in? What about if we have JJ?

I honestly don't know what I'd do, so these are honest questions on my part, Stefan. What do you think?
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I always (usually :), sometimes) bet when having the best hand, even if it is a small feeler bet as it can
1, build the pot*
2, let you know better where you are by seeing how your oppo reacts.
3, Thins the table and lessening the suck-out chances.

*building the pot when you have the best hand can be especially sweet when you hand is not only just called but goes on to improve (pp > a set, 2 pair > a boat) and of course you oppo now has chips in the middle as well to protect.

So sometimes especially in cash games ive found a small feeler bet can many things.
1. Aggressive - showing you are prepared to play your hand
2. Defensive - Making the fringe hands step aside making it safer with any loose hands hopefully out of the way.
3. Profitable - Building the pot, to increase the profit and cover any draws hit / missed.

Some (many :)) may not agree but every so often this stratagy works extremly well it of course depends on the type of table etc, but so does every poker thought out there :D

Agreed, but I don't think you're referring to feeler raises of flop/turn bets, are you? Or am I confused?

Extra Thought about re-raising
When you have top pair and are raised, if your kicker is also strong but there are raggy numbers on board, i like to test the ground with a firm re-raise,
because there is nothing worse than raising with a good hand only to watch someone win with 2 pair later on with a rag turn or river :mad:.
Show them your hand is stronger early on and it is going to cost them if they want to go hunting that 2nd pair :)

Good point; a standard bet sometimes means "I've paired the top card", like JT on a J64 board, so AJ should represent itself and make it costly to look for a T on the later streets. If AJ gets called after a raise of the flop bet, do we worry about a set of 6s or 4s, or just fire again on the turn?
 
Suited Frenzy

Suited Frenzy

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https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...o-you-raise-define-your-opponents-hand-82263/
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-strategy-33/qq-co-lag-raise-utg-easy-play-81224/
Reasons/times NOT to re-raise preflop
- Opponent is superaggressive and you don't have AA/KK. He may re-re-raise and push you off QQ/JJ/AK with lesser holdings so reraising won't help to defiine his hand, although it would help define your hand if you decide to call.


I agree w/ most of all you have except for pushing me off of QQ. I can see if it's deep in a tourney or something & it might cost you your whole tournament life by calling a huge bet w/ them but in most other situations, i won't be pushed around when i have pkt QQs. Pkt JJs i will fold almost all the time when it's a big bet because 1st & foremost, i can't stand that hand & always lose w/ it but it's not that strong when there are 5 cards to come on the board when some1 has any overs to the pkt JJs. I agree w/ all except the pushing me off of pkt QQs. It really depends on situation.
 
beardyian

beardyian

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Agreed, but I don't think you're referring to feeler raises of flop/turn bets, are you? Or am I confused?



Good point; a standard bet sometimes means "I've paired the top card", like JT on a J64 board, so AJ should represent itself and make it costly to look for a T on the later streets. If AJ gets called after a raise of the flop bet, do we worry about a set of 6s or 4s, or just fire again on the turn?

1. Feeler bets i would only make when either everyone had just checked or i was first to bet.

2. Often its the turn that can either make or break a hand (setting up that straight/flush etc) so when this card arrives it can often tell you indirectly how you are doing -
if you are unsure of his set, or strength of hand, you would presumably still be thinking you have the best hand (as on the flop) bet again - dont let the river arrive for free.
 
NineLions

NineLions

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I agree w/ most of all you have except for pushing me off of QQ. I can see if it's deep in a tourney or something & it might cost you your whole tournament life by calling a huge bet w/ them but in most other situations, i won't be pushed around when i have pkt QQs. Pkt JJs i will fold almost all the time when it's a big bet because 1st & foremost, i can't stand that hand & always lose w/ it but it's not that strong when there are 5 cards to come on the board when some1 has any overs to the pkt JJs. I agree w/ all except the pushing me off of pkt QQs. It really depends on situation.

Sounds like another vote for what Stefan was saying; be willing to go against superaggressive players with QQ because their range is wide.

And yeah, it is situationally dependent, like position, or sandwich situations. But, I'm trying to define some general rules for myself as my preflop aggression is okay because I'm into most pots raising, but I'm passive postflop even though I c-bet 80% of the time as well as regular bets, but I rarely reraise.
 
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