What do you do when the cards just don't come?

Shoestringx

Shoestringx

Guest
Ok, so I played in a $5 freezeout tonight on Titan and as always with cheap tourny's I go with a TAG approach, tournament started out good for me, made a lot on a couple of early hands and was in 3rd in the tourny for a bit.
Then I went totally card dead, and I mean really really card dead. So I spent the rest of the tournament folding, folding, folding....... then I got 10,10 and lost a big hand to Q,Q. Then came another rash of fold, fold, fold, fold and it got to the point where I was getting desperate (about 5BB). I pushed my chips in a couple times with suited rags and got the BB's to just barely keep myself afloat.
Blinds got up to 200/400 and I had around 1400 chips, got dealt K,K and pushed, someone called me with A,K and hit his A on the river.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is what do people do when the cards just don't come? All the advice I read on this site usually says to play TAG, but can you play TAG without cards? At what point should I change my strategy?
 
t1riel

t1riel

Legend
You should change your stragedy when the blinds start getting pricey. Use the raise or fold stragedy. Raise when you're on the button, small blind and big blind. If you have no riases before you and only two or less players in the pot when you're in the big blind, always raise. More times than not, you get the blinds which at this point will be helpful and building up your stack. By the time you steal a few pots, the good cards will come.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
well

I dont suggest this because I dont think it works but when Im totally card dead I just start throwing stuff around the room. I have gone through like 3 computers this way.

Usually my wife knows when im card dead because things will start flying down the stairs.


of course im kidding, if you are in danger of being blinded out or getting low you have to open up your starting hands qualifications. Or start pushing with mediocore hands that could turn into something like suited connectors. I would rather see you push with 7-2 then get blinded in to make 1 money jump or something like that. I always play to win not just make a extra couple dollars, so if it comes down to it im pushing.
 
Vasity

Vasity

Enthusiast
Well you couldn't of been drawing completly dead. That's impossible. But if you are waiting for hands in the top teir like AA KK QQ JJ 10-10 and such you are just asking yourself to be blindedout of the tourney play the hands you got to and when the blinds are cheap esepcally in a turbo or something play all the cards you get if you can get it for minimum and see what the flop gives you. This is how I play and I usually hover in 3rd until the end then snatch first. Good Luck
 
Shoestringx

Shoestringx

Guest
Vasity, I wasn't waiting around for "Premium" hands like A,A K,K etc. etc. With the run of cards I had I would have been more than happy to play low suited connecters, low pocket pairs, A,X and other marginal hands. However I was drawing J,5 then 6,9 then 3,5 then 2,9 and on and on and on.
So, as t1riel suggested I started getting more aggressive as the blinds were about to run me over. What I was wondering was if anyone had any other suggestions of things to try, when the cards are just not going your way.
Seeing cheap flops is great, but seeing cheap flops with absolute rags is only going to burn you chips away a lot faster IMO.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
You should change your stragedy when the blinds start getting pricey. Use the raise or fold stragedy.

You're joking now, right Tim?


to the original poster, you shouldn't even let yourself get down to <10BBs. If you are that low, you need to start pushing and stealing with KT, small pairs and similar-strength hands. If you let yourself get down to 5 BBs, you will have such small fold equity that you're all but screwed. Even if you double up at that point, you'll only have about 10BBs to work with which is still very short. In short you have to be in push/fold mode when you're at 10BBs, and will have to start pushing with much more marginal hands.

You don't want to be 'seeing flops' at this point. You should be all in, or folding.
 
Shoestringx

Shoestringx

Guest
Hi chuck thanks for the response, however you say at ~10BB to start pushing with K,10, small pairs and similar strength hands. I'm talking about a situation where I am getting nothing even close to that strength, nothing but the type of hands that are auto folds almost always. Like J,5 10,2 9,6 3,7 etc. etc. etc.
Either way 5BB is to small obviously, but I just couldn't allow myself to push with total rags before that point. I guess when this happens I should just take it on the chin because there probably isn't much I can do anyway.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Whatever you do, go out with a bang instead of dwindling your stack away.

In those situations you just have to make sure you get your money in before you get to a point where you have no fold equity. Should you find yourself with 8BBs or less, it should be because you just lost a pot that got you there. Not because you folded to that point. It can be pretty hard to stick your money in with Q2 or J9 or whatever, but it needs to be done sometimes. It's much better to go bust by pushing with rags than to dwindle down and fade out of a tourney.
 
stormswa

stormswa

Legend
yes

Whatever you do, go out with a bang instead of dwindling your stack away.

In those situations you just have to make sure you get your money in before you get to a point where you have no fold equity. Should you find yourself with 8BBs or less, it should be because you just lost a pot that got you there. Not because you folded to that point. It can be pretty hard to stick your money in with Q2 or J9 or whatever, but it needs to be done sometimes. It's much better to go bust by pushing with rags than to dwindle down and fade out of a tourney.

I second this entire post!!!!
 
JRskatr

JRskatr

Guest
Whatever you do, go out with a bang instead of dwindling your stack away.

In those situations you just have to make sure you get your money in before you get to a point where you have no fold equity. Should you find yourself with 8BBs or less, it should be because you just lost a pot that got you there. Not because you folded to that point. It can be pretty hard to stick your money in with Q2 or J9 or whatever, but it needs to be done sometimes. It's much better to go bust by pushing with rags than to dwindle down and fade out of a tourney.

I also agree with this post, you HAVE to start pushing when your stack gets to ~8-10 BBs, if it helps, cover your hole cards with your hands and if it gets folded to you in late position, PUSH! your opponents don't know that you're getting dealt 2 9, 3 6, etc. so pretend like you have A A and shove those chips in! No one says you can win a tourney without any luck at all, you have to get lucky at least once to win a tourney. Go all in, and if you're live, you're chances aren't all that bad man! The point is, NEVER BE A WOMAN AND BLIND OUT OF ANY TOURNEY
 
PopDog60

PopDog60

Guest
Ahhh.... the good old card dead situation, happens to me 90% of the time....

I think it is a disease that comes around time to time, anyways....

What i usually do, especially in MTT's is play anything DECENT for cheap, or mix it up and raise decent hands for bigger pots to steal (steal because u cant hit anything) ... definately raise more preflop though so you can get into more heads up hands and if the player misses at least you can get a chance to take down pots with stealing bets, as for when your shortstacked with high blinds, just push or fold... blinds are enough to raise your stack by like 10%, and there isnt anything wrong with that
 
V

villarge

Rising Star
This sounds like good advice.

If you're going out anyway why not push with nothing. You still have a chance. That said, deciding when to do it is still a tough call IMO.

Liked the advice of ChuckTs which made my mind up to be even more aggressive when I find myself in this situation.
 
xace100

xace100

Guest
what i do is when im down to around 10 BB im just looking to go all in. or i think to myself at some points have i got the best hand. e.g im in late pos say 1 before the button i have A3 or KT everyone folds to you, now i think 4 hands left in the pot do i have the best hand. more often than not yes so i push maybe even pushing better hands of the pot. cos you still have fold equity at this point. even if you get called you may still have live cards to double up. you do need to take risks at this point but your it it to win it.
 
A

alan1983

Visionary
I had that problem earlier today in tourney.

I was chip leader till late stages, even though i was card dead from start but had a few pocket pairs hit sets so made money off of that. Then, nothing... 62, 93, that kind of cards. And youd think you could use your stack but at that point all the lower stacks are going all-in left and right so theres not much way to bully without good cards. Eventually went all-in with kq with k on board and busted out when ace hit on river. was itm though..:rolleyes:

Anyone has any advices on how to improve play at that stage? When you have a decent chip stack but not hittin cards, and everyones lookin to double up, dyou just sit and wait for a decent hand or dyou take a chance with say 10-9?
 
O

oops2u

Rising Star
card dead

VASITY "well you couldn't have been drawing completly dead" ROFLMAO where do you play ? Cause I have been card dead a few times and I mean dead more than a few times.So I want to play where u do so never happens again. I believe all of you guys have good answers, as much as I know (which wouldn't fill head of pin).But just my opinion that the moves u suggest is so dependent on knowledge that lower limit mtts Sngs just going to be gone faster (which come to think of it,Must be better than what I'm doing now Screaming ,throwing stuff etc. so some times there's nothing you can do.Such as tonite for me no starting hands from get go if I got marginal one someone beats me to the punch with 3x raise or better This went on for first 1 1/2 hrs Finally got A A went AI railed by str8 Yes even with my chip count did get it down to one caller wrong one but one neverless LOL.So sometimes just aint meant to be I'm thinking.but if you guys/girls know better sites where cards are never dead or flops don't go completly other way let me in on it I'm there in heartbeat !Anyway just my 2 cents ty all for the great reading
 
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