turning from losing player to breakeven player

[slycbnew]

Answer : at HU to put him in a range is not my main goal but i decide then to fold,when to raise and call him down.

maybe i should put him on hands....

Everyone's saying pretty much the same thing, but I'll take one more shot: You really need to stop playing HU and go to a full table format (either 9/10 player full ring or 6max).

The above statement is a very clear indication that you don't yet have a good grasp of poker theory or practice, and you won't get a good feel for analyzing ranges (which IS poker, not your cards) until you play one of those formats.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

Answer : at HU to put him in a range is not my main goal but i decide then to fold,when to raise and call him down.

maybe i should put him on hands....

Listen, don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not even sure you understand what it is you are supposed to be doing let alone doing it well.

Stop playing HU and play either 6max or FR, you are going to lose a lot of money whilst you figure out what it is that you are supposed to be doing.. and then the even bigger task.. mastering the necessary skills you identify.

I think I'm done with this thread. Everyone is saying the same thin in regards to what you should do, you came here, asked for advice, and have decided to ignore pretty much everything that has been said.

I still wish you the best of luck, but feel that I'm wasting my time. I think you m,ay need to find this one out the hard way.

 

[sheepy10]

what i dont get is.

1, you decided to learn poker

why start with HU, ?, not a good grounding to learn the game

 

[RI_ER_SA]

1, you decided to learn poker

why start with HU, ?, not a good grounding to learn the game

Answer : I am kind of an ignorant person.

The reasons i played HU.

1.faster game.
2.See more hands.
3.concenrate at the opponent.
4.Learn poker faster.
5.Play at the diffucult game where there are better oppenents than i am.

but as i stated above i take the advice and turned into 6 person game, and i also lowered to 1 $ HU SNG.

 

[spunka]

Answer : I have read some.
1.headsup profits,
2.ace on the river,
3.doyle brunsons super system,
3.SNG master.

You have read these books, but did you understand them ?

In most books they do write something about hand ranges both of yours and your opponents as this is crusial for being able to master the gameplay, and understanding your opponents as well as yourself.

I have to agree with Stu's last post...

 

[thepokerkid123]

Try reading some of this:
http://www.poker1.com/mcu/mculibrary.asp

It's Mike Caro's website, the articles and tips sections are very useful.

I found that site years ago when I was just starting and whilst most of Mike Caro's stuff can be highly damaging to a beginner's bankroll, it will get you thinking the way you need to in order to become a good poker player.

I suggest it because it puts a lot of emphasis on thinking about your opponents, which you seem to need.

 

[RI_ER_SA]

Mike Caro says dont put your oppenents in to hands,but put them into everything...

i suspect i lose as i am not patient enough , and checked my records as under 4 min HU games i lose like 65 percent.Over 8 min games i win 65 percent.

could this be a tell ?

is there any site that records my hands in HU and give me an advice ?or do i need to run a software on my pc?

 

[ozvillain]

Answer : I am kind of an ignorant person.

The reasons i played HU.

1.faster game.
2.See more hands.
3.concenrate at the opponent.
4.Learn poker faster.
5.Play at the diffucult game where there are better oppenents than i am.

but as i stated above i take the advice and turned into 6 person game, and i also lowered to 1 $ HU SNG.

Ok I just thought I'd address some of the reasons you play heads up.
Faster game - true but you want to learn to play, right? So how are you going to learn properly by starting at the end of the game play quickly with no space to think and reassess your play in between hands?

See more hands- why is that one of your motivations? Do you really want to learn or do you want to gamble (i suspect it's the latter) - again if you really want to learn you most of it comes from observation not actually playing

Concentrate on the opponent - you can do this more effectively in an sng/fr game - let other people bet against each other and make a note of their patterns, how are you going to make accurate judgements about your opponents style when you re playing every hand in a game you have limited experience in?

Learn poker faster - except your not learning to play poker - the game is so complex and so much of it is about positioning, using bets to ask questions, knowing when to check, fold and bet, understanding your opponent, adjusting your game for short handed and ultimatey hu (if you re playing sngs/tourneys) - what your doing is like trying to learn to speak japanes but instead of going to classes and starting with the basics you ve grabbed a copy of a sony computer technical manual and a dictionary and now don t understand why your not getting anywhere.

Play at difficult game where the opponents are better thatn I am - if you were learning to box would you start off with Mike Tyson? No - and most of the guys at the local boxing gym would be able to belt the hell out of you. By the sounds of it mate most of the people online will be better than you are you have to start at the bottom, learn and work your way up.

 

[cardplayer52]

Yes it is.

Let's say you played 700 SnG's each at $2.15, your entry fees add up to $1505. If you win 49% of those 700 SnG's, you get back 343*$4 = $1372 for a net loss of $133. The rake by itself is 700 x $0.15 = $105 of that $133.

I don't know why but I just figured it out. You got to be winning these $2.15 HU SNGs at rate of 53.75% just to break even.

 

[PurgatoryD]

You got to be winning these $2.15 HU SNGs at rate of 53.75% just to break even.

Wow, not an easy task I would imagine. If you're playing against other good players, without the experience of the final table to see how they're playing, I can't see anything over 50% over a long period of time. These HU tourneys look no better than red-black on the roulette wheel.

-Dave

 

[RI_ER_SA]

These HU tourneys look no better than red-black on the roulette wheel.

how many years do u think it will take to someone became a consistent winner at HU ?

 

[The_Pup]

I think what you are doing wrong is not thinking you did anything wrong since you were 60% to win. You are way to early in the tourney to get involved in a coin flip for your life, and ATs is not as great a hand as I suspect you think.

You need to be thinking about the tournament as a whole and have a plan for winning/getting paid. When you have a nutter (all-in with 64s?) at your table you need to think about how to handle it. Usually maniacs blow out early or built a massive stack and start pushing people about. I have good results from keeping my head down in the early stages - let someone else do what you did and either knock out the nutter or knock out themselves. I'll often find myself with second best stack on the bubble with two very scared small stacks. I am happier with that than going 60/40 in your situation.

It's not easy having a very LAG player at your table, but no-one says you have to get involved with them. No, really, you don't. There are 5 others at your table to get chips from - use what advantage you have over them to stay alive.

 

[testreet]

It really takes time and dedication..I would suggest you keep a poker pad and see how you play hands and which ones you play and put them at a percentage to the outcome of your hand...It really helped me alot through this year

 

[PurgatoryD]

how many years do u think it will take to someone became a consistent winner at HU ?

To me, being a "consistent winner" at HU means that if I play the best of the best and I find the two of us evenly stacked, I still manage to win, on average, 50% of the time.

That's why, in a normal tournament, when it comes down to the final table, everyone is jockeying for position before it gets down to the final two. Some are playing it safe, trying to work their way up the payout ladder. Others are taking calculated risks with nine opponents to make their job easier if/when they make it to the final two.

So, in a typical tournament, a whole lot of things have happened between the final two players well before it ever got down to those two players. All this information is used when playing HU, in addition to any stack size advantage that was achieved during earlier play.

For me personally, I can't imagine playing HU with someone without first going through the three-way cycle. That's a chance for me to really see how they react to passivity and agression. Do they play me differently than they play that third player? What does that mean they think of my play? How am I going to best maximize a future AA or KK, for instance? Will they call if I shove, or will I have to draw them in? Four-way gives similar information, as does five-way, etc.

By playing in a strictly HU tournament, you are giving up all of this information as well as the opportunity to get a HU stack advantage. So, you are evenly stacked with no prior information. Against an evenly matched opponent, you are now highly dependent on cards. Thus, in my opinion, you are an average 50% to win. That's fine, but because you need to win 53.75% of the time to break even in these types of tournaments, you can see that it's a losing proposition.

I think this is why you are seeing so many people tell you that this is not a good place to put your money. What good is HU practice going to be if you can never make it to HU through a full field of players? Instead of that, try playing a full field MTT. Focus on getting ITM. There are so many aspects to that, including the early play pitfalls and getting past the bubble.

Then focus on getting from ITM to the final table. Once again, there are unique challenges that may change the way you decide to play the earlier part of your game. Once you can consistently get to the final table, you can work on getting to the final three. Once there, you will get your share of HU opportunities.

The great thing about learning poker in the order that you normally experience it is this: you can use it right away to advance you further in the game. HU practice, on the other hand, in no way -- no way at all -- teaches you how to make it from the start of the game to the final table, for instance. It just doesn't.

So, good luck to you, and take the avice of those here, stop spinning the roulette wheel and start playing poker!

Good luck!
-Dave

 

[dawggbob27]

how many years do u think it will take to someone became a consistent winner at HU ?

I think my Heads up game is as good as anybodys.... That said youll never be a consistent winner heads up. 1. Because you MUST win over 50 percent of the time. and 2. Because its that last part of your game you need to worry about. Im good Heads up because Ive been playing heads up for quite awhile LOCALLY which is to say Ive played alot of live heads up games.

Also The first few hands of heads up should be used to LEARN YOUR OPPONENTS RANGE of hands, Its no different than any other Poker other than Hand values when your heads up. Obviously if your holding Pocket, K,Q,J,A your ahead and will win more often than youll lose. but knowing what your opponent is willing to call you down with is VERY important If Im holding Pocket AA and the flop comes K,10,A how confident am I that my opponents range doesnt include Q/J??? IM not. But had I spent a little time learning about him for the first few hands Id have well known what his range was.

But as has been stated you seem pretty cut and clear on playing Heads Up so I wish you the best of luck. On the same token you really need to take a minute and make your OVERALL game better before you focus on Heads Up Play.

 

[Worak]

my 4 th 6 handed game 1 $ SNG.

Opponent is loose and aggresive.

http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/964681



What did i do wrong ? I am 62 percent favorite in all in ?

First of all you didn't know that he had 63s as he went all in preflop utg.

What I would consider a "normal" shoving range here is AKo, AKs and 1010+, maybe 77,88,99, AQo/s if he's really a maniac AJo/s.

You are either crushed or dominated - not a good spot to call with anything worse than QQ+ here imo.

Against this range (even if villain is more laggy than "normal") A10s doesn't do well usually so you shouldn't have called preflop but muck A10s.

On a side-note: meaning that you are 6:4 favorite means you will lose 4 out of 10 times .. like this time.

It seems to me that your HU playing didn't help but rather hurt your sng/mtt game here.

Poker is a game of patience and survival - you need to fold about 75% (sometimes even more) of your hands preflop.

Now to some of your comments..._

at HU to put him in a range is not my main goal

Until you change this you will lose - period.

Answer : I am kind of an ignorant person.

^^ ignoring the advice (or part of it) of experienced, winning players like several having posted here already is - well, nah I won't say it....

The reasons i played HU.

1.faster game.

^^- yes, faster, you're in every hand and as your graph shows : lose fast. - It's much easier to put opponents on ranges in sngs/mtts because you are NOT in every hand.

2.See more hands.

^^Not necessarily, experienced players playing against each other won't have many shodowns because they know when to fold which you don't

3.concenrate at the opponent.

^^After finishing a 9 player sng I have reads on 8 players, on how many players will you have a read after 1xHU ?

4.Learn poker faster.

^^You're obviously lacking patience - you are at the start of a year-long marathon - and start with a sprint I think your condition (your BR ) can't support.

5.Play at the diffucult game where there are better oppenents than i am.

Believe me this is a dead end - playing against BETTER players than you will only lead to losing all / most of the time, you can learn from playing against weaker players, too (and make a profit).


but as i stated above i take the advice and turned into 6 person game, and i also lowered to 1 $ HU SNG.

I'd go with fullring / 9max sngs - chances are better that at least 2 opponent play worse than you

 

[RI_ER_SA]

one of the reasons i play headsup is i read a book called "headsup profits" and it seemed a nice idea.

also checked sharkscope.com and see all those HU winners.

probably i got a wannabe sendrome...