Trying out ZOOM

[vegasjj]

Thanks for the post and the advice magicius.

Hope your luck turn around.

About me... yes stats look real loose still, I'm working on it. I do believe I had beginner's luck. Just to prove your point, I lost 2x BI ($4) in no time just in over 50 hands and walked away for now. Will go back later, now went to play a MTT.

I am not giving-up on Zoom, I think it has real potential for me. True I have lots to learn and I have to watch my action - ie do not run after losses.

Not sure if this is "valid" idea or not, but I intend to stop playing (zoom) if I lose 2 x BI in a row. Two reasons: I think usually self confidence suffers at that point, and will influence negatively my perception / my game. Also don't laugh but I think good luck and bad luck they come sort of in a string - so might as well quit before I lose more.

 

[magicius]

i am doing ok in it ,atm still @5nl and doing ok...
I have problem when i start session i start loose... And lose sometimes 5bi in 200hands,than i play 1000+ hands to getbit on 0 and its not like i go aipf with ace rag... Yesterday for example i opened 4 tables(like always) on one i call aipf with KK and lose to JJ... In same time on other table i get AKs on TJQ board,guy shoves i call he got QQ and river comes T... 2bi down in 2 hands any way i see you play on 1 table,continue like that and add second if you are winning and feel confy about it,thats mistake i make.... GL

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[vegasjj]

any way i see you play on 1 table,continue like that and add second if you are winning and feel confy about it

It will be a SUPER LONG time before I can MAYBE consider multi-tabling in zoom.

 

[vegasjj]

lost my touch getting in trouble

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.60 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (SB): $1.42
BB: $1.51 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG: $5.75 (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 1)
MP: $2.88 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
CO: $2.02 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has Q:heart: Q:diamond:

fold, MP raises to $0.06, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, fold, MP calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.26, 2 players) 4:heart: J:diamond: 2:heart:
Hero bets $0.25, MP calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.76, 2 players) 5:heart:
Hero bets $0.36, MP raises to $2.51 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.69 and is all-in

River: ($2.86, 2 players) 3:heart:

Hero shows Q:heart: Q:diamond: (Flush, Queen High) (Pre 71%, Flop 75%, Turn 66%)
MP shows A:heart: J:club: (Straight Flush, Five High) (Pre 29%, Flop 25%, Turn 34%)
MP wins $2.76

 

[tomnovember]

I think both your and your opponent's plays are quite confusing... It is easy to see that your opponent has an A, but actually I can not find any hand that can check the turn and 3bet-fold the river. Both of your plays are not reasonable... Could your share your reading in this hand?

 

[Speedexas]

It will be a SUPER LONG time before I can MAYBE consider multi-tabling in zoom.

The more ZOOM tables you will play , the tighter you will be. 28VPIP is very loose. When you will hit a downswing your bankroll will go down + you will TILT and lose even more. You really have to start playing tighter. Try playing 2 tables with 23 VPIP.

 

[Logan2]

Not sure if this is "valid" idea or not, but I intend to stop playing (zoom) if I lose 2 x BI in a row. Two reasons: I think usually self confidence suffers at that point, and will influence negatively my perception / my game. Also don't laugh but I think good luck and bad luck they come sort of in a string - so might as well quit before I lose more.

Stop lose is fine if you usually tilt after some loses and end spewing even more because of that.

There is a program now call it tilt breaker that do this for the times you get on tilt and can´t stop yourself, added with a bunch of other things that can do for you.

It have a 15 day free trial.
http://tiltbreaker.com/

 

[vegasjj]

I think both your and your opponent's plays are quite confusing... It is easy to see that your opponent has an A, but actually I can not find any hand that can check the turn and 3bet-fold the river. Both of your plays are not reasonable... Could your share your reading in this hand?

I did not see my play as real bad (except the call on river - which I just wanted to see what he got after I put all that money in - I know that is terrible and I will fix that) ... so I think that IS REAL BAD... - please tell me what was soo bad in my play. I should know - and it is embarrassing that I don't but I rather be embarrassed here among friends and learn.

 

[vegasjj]

The more ZOOM tables you will play , the tighter you will be. 28VPIP is very loose. When you will hit a downswing your bankroll will go down + you will TILT and lose even more. You really have to start playing tighter. Try playing 2 tables with 23 VPIP.

Yes I know it is too lose, I am really working on it. It will come down! I have a hard time resiting temptation. I see and I know multitable would help with that a lot. But I find myself not being very good at multi table - so have to do it at one. Most of the time I do not feel bored - only sometimes. On 2 tables I get more often frazzled. So this is the better choice for me at this time.

 

[vegasjj]

Stop lose is fine if you usually tilt after some loses and end spewing even more because of that.

There is a program now call it tilt breaker that do this for the times you get on tilt and can´t stop yourself, added with a bunch of other things that can do for you.

It have a 15 day free trial.
http://tiltbreaker.com/

What a cool idea! I will certainly check it out - thank you very much!

And yes I did not do very good yesterday, overall lost $6. And that is in spite of the fact that I did cash out one time $4+ and one time $7+
Some loses I think would have been preventable, some I knew I'm way behind - but the devil made me do it, and some plain bad luck. On the plus side I made $17.xx in a small MTT on Party.
Will try again later today. I watched a class - in PSO - for zoom MTT, was not for cash - but still enjoyed the class.
Anyone participates/watches some of the PSO classes?

PS. I still don't know how to tag people fast. I know what to tag them after the show-down, and there is no time to do right click and select a ring color... or am I just too slow?

 

[Fknife]

1. Play with a full stack.
2. Dont put an entire stack with just a TPTK.
3. Its harder to find thin value spots in Zoom than in regular tables.
4. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHNmGrp13wX9dCNglJAFR4KUkzeSfDpos

Oh, and dont min 3bet OOP, ffs!

 

[vegasjj]

1. Play with a full stack.
2. Dont put an entire stack with just a TPTK.
3. Its harder to find thin value spots in Zoom than in regular tables.
4. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHNmGrp13wX9dCNglJAFR4KUkzeSfDpos

Oh, and dont min 3bet OOP, ffs!

Thanks and thanks for the link!
I am amazed how much info is out there!

 

[magicius]

What a cool idea! I will certainly check it out - thank you very much!

And yes I did not do very good yesterday, overall lost $6. And that is in spite of the fact that I did cash out one time $4+ and one time $7+
Some loses I think would have been preventable, some I knew I'm way behind - but the devil made me do it, and some plain bad luck. On the plus side I made $17.xx in a small MTT on Party.
Will try again later today. I watched a class - in PSO - for zoom MTT, was not for cash - but still enjoyed the class.
Anyone participates/watches some of the PSO classes?

PS. I still don't know how to tag people fast. I know what to tag them after the show-down, and there is no time to do right click and select a ring color... or am I just too slow?

ehm
1. tiltbreaker i great tool... i loved it very much but its way expensive...
2.i did watch pso classes before but after i watched "how to win with AK" i stopped watching them every example they gave there was a bulls***...
3. about tagging you are very slow.... during your time to act there is plenty of time... altho i do just basic color note like reg,fish,nit,donk etc...

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[vegasjj]

ehm

3. about tagging you are very slow.... during your time to act there is plenty of time... altho i do just basic color note like reg,fish,nit,donk etc...

I could tag no problem during my time to act.. but typically I will not know what to tag someone until AFTER the showdown and I don't seem to find enough time there... what am I not getting here?

 

[magicius]

Replay hand and than tag? I do it all the time while 4 tabling,if u have crsp hands u can sitout them,but since you play one table its very easy... Put hands history on desktop and keep it open,i forgot how it looks on ps6 but on ps7 its like 1 click away

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[magicius]

I am tagging ppl after i see them numerous time at table, only donks are tagged after hand... When they shove 83s etc

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[vegasjj]

Thanks! Will try

Few nice MTT's coming-up for me. It is cool I have a bit more options with starting to play NL2.
Truth is before - I never had the patience to try NL2 - only played on occasion NL5. But fugured if I want to give a more serious try I have to start in the beginning. And NL2 is not bad at all, not the way I used to think about it.

 

[Logan2]

You are playing only one table so is more than easy, after the hand ends just click on sitout next hand, so you going to be there alone in limbo sitout, use the replayer to see the hand and color code the player or make a note, then can return to player pool like nothing happen and you not going to pay the bb if was not your turn to pay (like on reg tables that if sit out need to pay again if round pass and get in)

I play 3-4 tables and tag players based on hud stats, so can tag a player instantly, after showdown i can make notes been sitout on that table or by click on hud pop up of villain which stay even if hand change.
​

 

[vegasjj]

I was playing more today - and will play a bit more too

Having a great day - cards are nice to me - I am up $8, so recovered the $6 loss from yesterday + a little.

Thanks for telling me about tagging using the replay. WORKS GREAT!

An other very interesting thing for me - I never had as good a use of PT4 as I have now! Thanks to things you guys said, ie include "fold to steal" etc, I am actually using the info from PT4 BEFORE I make decisions. Probably should not admit this in public, but in MTT's typically I was making a decision - and IF IN DOUBT - I looked at the PT4 for guidance. Probably my MTT play will improve thanks to all the things I am learning here.

Yes I am a forum member for a long time, and play poker (except this year) with some success, but I really am your typical recreational player that did not invest adequate time in studying poker, just learning on the fly.

Below are my latest stats, as you see I am really working hard at improving it

Thank you all for all the help.

PS. tomorrow there are a number of real good MTT's - so I will be mostly playing those.

 

[tomnovember]

I did not see my play as real bad (except the call on river - which I just wanted to see what he got after I put all that money in - I know that is terrible and I will fix that) ... so I think that IS REAL BAD... - please tell me what was soo bad in my play. I should know - and it is embarrassing that I don't but I rather be embarrassed here among friends and learn.

Preflop: first of all, I will fold KTo against 3bet easily. Hit or fold is definitely not a good strategy, and even if you hit a K, you may be dominated by AA, AK, KQ or even KJ. If you hit a T, all AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT and KT can let you lose a big pot. The most important thing is... You can hardly get paid off from BB if you are ahead, as you are OOP and BB can hardly 3bet with Kx or Tx with a bad kicker.

Flop: Crazy play! Pot bet with a middle pair on such a dry board, what kind of hand do you want to pretend? 50% to 60% of the pot may be the right size.

Turn: Well, you get called by an A, or get floated. You check the turn, and if I was BB, I will bet 60% to 80% of the pot no matter what kind of hand I have. Do you really considering commit 40BB or more on the turn just with T pair and a gut draw?

River: Your opponent can just call the river with any pair as your bet is too small, or just fold as you have given him a free card already, or reraise you with straights (also possible)

So... I really cannot understand your thought in this hand. Just seems to confusing for me.

 

[vegasjj]

Preflop: first of all, I will fold KTo against 3bet easily. Hit or fold is definitely not a good strategy, and even if you hit a K, you may be dominated by AA, AK, KQ or even KJ. If you hit a T, all AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT and KT can let you lose a big pot. The most important thing is... You can hardly get paid off from BB if you are ahead, as you are OOP and BB can hardly 3bet with Kx or Tx with a bad kicker.

Flop: Crazy play! Pot bet with a middle pair on such a dry board, what kind of hand do you want to pretend? 50% to 60% of the pot may be the right size.

Turn: Well, you get called by an A, or get floated. You check the turn, and if I was BB, I will bet 60% to 80% of the pot no matter what kind of hand I have. Do you really considering commit 40BB or more on the turn just with T pair and a gut draw?

River: Your opponent can just call the river with any pair as your bet is too small, or just fold as you have given him a free card already, or reraise you with straights (also possible)

So... I really cannot understand your thought in this hand. Just seems to confusing for me.

I looked high and low to find the hand you are talking about.
Your previous post.....

I think both your and your opponent's plays are quite confusing... It is easy to see that your opponent has an A, but actually I can not find any hand that can check the turn and 3bet-fold the river. Both of your plays are not reasonable... Could your share your reading in this hand?

was below a hand where I had QQ...
So I think you are referring to the hand in the opening post. IF SO....

I did qualify it as a dumb lucky bluff hand - posted it as such

Thinking - well not too good for sure.. but here is some
originally it was attempt to steal
then I just (stupid) wanted to see flop
after flop - hit a pr - and wanted to pretend I got more
He called - I knew I'm in trouble - and checked the turn
River - I was in major trouble - the only slim hope was a bluff bet

not proud of that hand at all - but that was the story

 

[tomnovember]

I looked high and low to find the hand you are talking about.
Your previous post.....



was below a hand where I had QQ...
So I think you are referring to the hand in the opening post. IF SO....

I did qualify it as a dumb lucky bluff hand - posted it as such

Thinking - well not too good for sure.. but here is some
originally it was attempt to steal
then I just (stupid) wanted to see flop
after flop - hit a pr - and wanted to pretend I got more
He called - I knew I'm in trouble - and checked the turn
River - I was in major trouble - the only slim hope was a bluff bet

not proud of that hand at all - but that was the story

I am sorry. Actually I am talking about the first hand you posted (KTs)
I don't think bluffing is wish as there exist some straights. And your actions on both flop and turn can hardly pretend KQ

Talking about that QQ hand, actually there are still something can be improved.

1. Mini 3bet OOP is not a good idea. QQ is strong preflop but really hard to go with a large pot with A or K on the flop.
2. Do not bet that much on the flop. You may decrease your opponent's opportunity of making calling mistakes.
3. Check call/raise on the turn maybe somewhat better. As you do 3bet, it is really hard to put your hands on A flush. And actually even if I do make a flush, I will choose check raise instead of bet.

 

[vegasjj]

Thanks for the feedback Tom, I appreciate it!

Have nothing to report for today. I did not play cash games, did play a few MTT's and to my greatest surprise I had an excellent day.
Cashed in 2 of the CC freerolls and won $60 in an other MTT. I had some great luck at times - the biggest was my JJ > AA - this does not happen to me - but it did woweeee.. lol. Also I think that the cash game is making me a better MTT player too!

 

[vegasjj]

After a good start in cash - disaster hit today.
IT IS MY FAULT - I just was in this mood to play BIG. I totally am aware that I'm not ready for it, but just really wanted to try.
Here are some of the disasters:

Hand # 1 -----------------------------------
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
SB: $15.32 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
BB: $10.37 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
UTG: $3.31 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
MP: $10.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (CO): $5.36

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q♠ A♥

fold, MP raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.60, fold, fold, fold, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.35, 2 players) 5♣ A♦ 9♠
MP checks, Hero bets $0.64, MP calls $0.64

Turn: ($2.63, 2 players) 6♠
MP checks, Hero bets $2.51, MP raises to $8.15, Hero calls $1.61 and is all-in

River: ($10.87, 2 players) J♦

MP shows 5♥ 5♦ (Three of a Kind, Fives) (Pre 54%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Q♠ A♥ (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 46%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
MP wins $10.38

Hand # 2 ------------------------------------
I do know exactly EVERYTHING I did wrong here just posting it for completeness of my disaster -
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 66.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (SB): $4.60
BB: $12.00 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
UTG: $7.67 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
MP: $12.22 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
CO: $11.04 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has T♣ A♣

UTG calls $0.10, MP raises to $0.25, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.20, BB calls $0.15, UTG calls $0.15

Flop: ($1.00, 4 players) 9♣ 5♣ 6♣
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks

Turn: ($1.00, 4 players) 6♦
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks

River: ($1.00, 4 players) 4♦
Hero bets $0.96, fold, fold, MP raises to $6.90, Hero calls $3.39 and is all-in

MP shows 4♥ 4♠ (Full House, Fours full of Sixes) (Pre 50%, Flop 3%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows T♣ A♣ (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 50%, Flop 97%, Turn 91%)
MP wins $9.26

HAND # 3 --------------------------------
I know this was a very weak opening hand - BUT DAM IT!-
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $10.00 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 4)
SB: $3.39
BB: $13.17
UTG: $10.15 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
MP: $10.64 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (CO): $4.60

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has K♦ Q♥

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.75, 2 players) 8♦ Q♦ 3♥
Hero bets $0.40, BTN calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.55, 2 players) 2♦
Hero bets $0.70, BTN calls $0.70

River: ($2.95, 2 players) 5♦
Hero bets $1.00, BTN raises to $3.30, Hero calls $2.20 and is all-in

BTN shows A♦ Q♣ (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 75%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)
Hero shows K♦ Q♥ (Flush, King High) (Pre 25%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)
BTN wins $8.93

HAND # 4 --------------------------------
How on earth did he call? and look at that river card!-
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $44.73 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
SB: $8.07
Hero (BB): $3.19
UTG: $15.12 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
MP: $10.92
CO: $13.56 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 5♦ 5♥

fold, MP raises to $0.30, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $3.19 and is all-in, MP calls $2.89

Flop: ($6.43, 2 players) 2♠ 4♦ 7♦

Turn: ($6.43, 2 players) T♣

River: ($6.43, 2 players) 9♥

Hero shows 5♦ 5♥ (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 50%, Flop 49%, Turn 68%)
MP shows Q♦ 9♦ (One Pair, Nines) (Pre 50%, Flop 51%, Turn 32%)
MP wins $6.14


Then I came back to NL2 ------------------------

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $3.57 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
SB: $2.54
Hero (BB): $2.46
UTG: $2.05
MP: $4.45
CO: $3.77 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A♦ Q♦

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.08, fold, Hero raises to $0.16, BTN calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.33, 2 players) Q♠ A♣ J♠
Hero bets $0.16, BTN raises to $0.48, Hero raises to $2.30 and is all-in, BTN calls $1.82

Turn: ($4.93, 2 players) T♠

River: ($4.93, 2 players) T♦

Hero shows A♦ Q♦ (Two Pair, Aces and Queens) (Pre 71%, Flop 64%, Turn 7%)
BTN shows 9♠ A♠ (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 29%, Flop 36%, Turn 93%)
BTN wins $4.76

Definitely quit for the night - lol
The real annoying part is that they happen one after the other with no real positive in between.

Please tell me which ones (or if all) I played miserable - or was just a bad time.

 

[magicius]

Seems very known for me hand with 9 on river,he called you cause you are shortstack... When u want to take a shot,i suggest that you first enter full ring....
I do sometimes same mistakes... Just blew like 180$ that way few days ago....
Shove on river,ye ill call it why not,but i know he have fullhouse.... Also with shoves on flop,you hold AA and flop comes 46T 99% you are agains set... Few bad beats and see what happens :-(

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