TPTK,TPGK losing to flop/turn/river sets

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loaderseven

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I was check my handhistory during my lunch break, Im playing 5c in ignition zone only. I found out that I have a big leak in my TPTK game. It usually runs like this

Im the preflop agressor, 3 bet/2bet whatever, the flop comes in A semi wet/dry flop, but favors the preflop aggressor, I bet my TPTK 1/4-2/3 pot, sometime pot size bet. Villian calls, if its very dry I usally will pot control the turn , I even folded some pot sized turn dunk bet OOP. River comes a safe card, I bet 1/3 or half pot for thin value, Villian check raised, sometime I folded sometime I called. I caught few bluffs, but most of the time I lost a big stack. Im having a hard time detectimg a mine trap. I tried the streets of vaule theory, but I still find it hard to get out these situation, esp if they just flat the flop raise.
 
Yanko57

Yanko57

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They are indeed tough situations to handle... Trust your instinct. First thought is almost always the best thing to do. If you have a tracker, use these stats in your favor!

I was check my handhistory during my lunch break, Im playing 5c in ignition zone only. I found out that I have a big leak in my TPTK game. It usually runs like this

Im the preflop agressor, 3 bet/2bet whatever, the flop comes in A semi wet/dry flop, but favors the preflop aggressor, I bet my TPTK 1/4-2/3 pot, sometime pot size bet. Villian calls, if its very dry I usally will pot control the turn , I even folded some pot sized turn dunk bet OOP. River comes a safe card, I bet 1/3 or half pot for thin value, Villian check raised, sometime I folded sometime I called. I caught few bluffs, but most of the time I lost a big stack. Im having a hard time detectimg a mine trap. I tried the streets of vaule theory, but I still find it hard to get out these situation, esp if they just flat the flop raise.
 
LevySystem

LevySystem

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I was check my handhistory during my lunch break, Im playing 5c in ignition zone only. I found out that I have a big leak in my TPTK game. It usually runs like this

Im the preflop agressor, 3 bet/2bet whatever, the flop comes in A semi wet/dry flop, but favors the preflop aggressor, I bet my TPTK 1/4-2/3 pot, sometime pot size bet. Villian calls, if its very dry I usally will pot control the turn , I even folded some pot sized turn dunk bet OOP. River comes a safe card, I bet 1/3 or half pot for thin value, Villian check raised, sometime I folded sometime I called. I caught few bluffs, but most of the time I lost a big stack. Im having a hard time detectimg a mine trap. I tried the streets of vaule theory, but I still find it hard to get out these situation, esp if they just flat the flop raise.

We need more info...
First off try to distinguish if you're leak is IP or OOP with initiative. 3betpot is largely different from SRP. What sample are we talking about?
What's ure WtSD W$SD etc.

Then remember that on the Turn you allways want to reevaluate the strength of 1 pair hands. Especially facing bets and raises. Count combos and start figuring out how high ure up in you're range vs villains range. And if V has a set from time to time so be it, no need to stop betting because of that. If we have good hand/ bluff = barrel. Loosing some hands is inevitable, but if you made a good play that's +ev. Also postflop stats may help you with figuring out what V has. WtSD 20 nit id fold almost second to third nuts to If we get raised. If we are talking about a WtSD 40 guy we can snapcall pretty loose. Then again you'll need a decent sample for that.
 
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xrhstos

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It is not a rule of certainty but usually check-raises on the river are for value.
When faced with such a decision you should consider the strength of your hand and also consider the range that your opponent has when they make that play.
If you are behind the majority of their range you can fold in similar situations in the future.
If there could be bluffs or hands that you beat in their check-raising range, you should stick to your call decision, even if sometimes they will have it.
Good job on finding the leak and trying to improve it, you are on the right track!
 
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loaderseven

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We need more info...
First off try to distinguish if you're leak is IP or OOP with initiative. 3betpot is largely different from SRP. What sample are we talking about?
What's ure WtSD W$SD etc.

Then remember that on the Turn you allways want to reevaluate the strength of 1 pair hands. Especially facing bets and raises. Count combos and start figuring out how high ure up in you're range vs villains range. And if V has a set from time to time so be it, no need to stop betting because of that. If we have good hand/ bluff = barrel. Loosing some hands is inevitable, but if you made a good play that's +ev. Also postflop stats may help you with figuring out what V has. WtSD 20 nit id fold almost second to third nuts to If we get raised. If we are talking about a WtSD 40 guy we can snapcall pretty loose. Then again you'll need a decent sample for that.


I dont think you can use tracker on bodogs network. What the winning players's WtSD like? 25%?
 
LevySystem

LevySystem

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I dont think you can use tracker on bodogs network. What the winning players's WtSD like? 25%?


Depends a lot on you're playstyle. Above 30 is usually a sign of a bad player. Between 20-30 is a winning player alltough below 25 is a huge nit. Have seen people running WtSD of 18 and beating the pool. But if someone with WtSD 18 raises you can snapfols anything but nuts. Also keep in mind that you need a decent sample of hands smth like 5k+ for a first hint.

Edit: My Bad, so used to playing on stars. That I just assume everyone can use huds...
 
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eetenor

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I was check my handhistory during my lunch break, Im playing 5c in ignition zone only. I found out that I have a big leak in my TPTK game. It usually runs like this

Im the preflop agressor, 3 bet/2bet whatever, the flop comes in A semi wet/dry flop, but favors the preflop aggressor, I bet my TPTK 1/4-2/3 pot, sometime pot size bet. Villian calls, if its very dry I usally will pot control the turn , I even folded some pot sized turn dunk bet OOP. River comes a safe card, I bet 1/3 or half pot for thin value, Villian check raised, sometime I folded sometime I called. I caught few bluffs, but most of the time I lost a big stack. Im having a hard time detectimg a mine trap. I tried the streets of vaule theory, but I still find it hard to get out these situation, esp if they just flat the flop raise.


Thank U 4 Posting.

Without the use of a hud we have to take notes and notice player pool trends ourselves. You implied that you have seen a trend, much more value than bluffs when raised on turn or river.
That is very common for average players, so we have to adapt our play to that player pool tendency. One poster mentioned river raises are mostly value and that is true so often that we would need notes on that specific villain to not fold every time.

Another data point you should be looking for is when villains have TP worse kicker how are they playing it? Do they just call down? Do they fold? That way we can better understand how to react to sudden AGG on turn by knowing the %. If the raise is 90% value we do not have to catch the 10% bluff unless we have a solid read.

Your approach with bet sizing seems good in a player pool that plays mostly for value.

In this player pool type bet folding is a good play. Vs players who will adapt it is dangerous but your player pool does not have a hud either so they do not know what your fold to turn raise % is.

You will also be playing your nut hands the same way by betting small flop and turn so when you are set over set cha-ching.

Also you will be playing your high equity draws bet flop small check turn misses and bet hits because you know that is when villains attack. No need to slow play if villain has a set they will raise. Also in POS vs turn check raising villains, check turn to realize equity.

Remember our goal is not to win hands, we want to win the big pots.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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loaderseven

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Thank U 4 Posting.

Without the use of a hud we have to take notes and notice player pool trends ourselves. You implied that you have seen a trend, much more value than bluffs when raised on turn or river.
That is very common for average players, so we have to adapt our play to that player pool tendency. One poster mentioned river raises are mostly value and that is true so often that we would need notes on that specific villain to not fold every time.

Another data point you should be looking for is when villains have TP worse kicker how are they playing it? Do they just call down? Do they fold? That way we can better understand how to react to sudden AGG on turn by knowing the %. If the raise is 90% value we do not have to catch the 10% bluff unless we have a solid read.

Your approach with bet sizing seems good in a player pool that plays mostly for value.

In this player pool type bet folding is a good play. Vs players who will adapt it is dangerous but your player pool does not have a hud either so they do not know what your fold to turn raise % is.

You will also be playing your nut hands the same way by betting small flop and turn so when you are set over set cha-ching.

Also you will be playing your high equity draws bet flop small check turn misses and bet hits because you know that is when villains attack. No need to slow play if villain has a set they will raise. Also in POS vs turn check raising villains, check turn to realize equity.

Remember our goal is not to win hands, we want to win the big pots.

Hope this helps
:):)


Thank you for the reply. I will try to implement that into my play.
 
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