Strategy disagreement

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TylerOC

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my father and i have been argueing for the past half hour about a certain strategy and he suggested i ask more advanced poker players for their opinion, if most side with me then he'll accept that i was right.

so for example, i would be playing tight agressive, and only playing very good hands and going aggressive with them when i get them. if i continue to only do that, they would figure out how i play and if i get aggressive, then they would know i have a good hand, since its the only thing i go in on. so to switch it up, i bluff a hand, and they all go out.

now he said that i should still muck my hand so nobody knows what i had, because the entire game, he says, is people paying to see your hand, and you shouldnt let them see it for nothing. but i say that if you dont show that hand, true they will still be wondering, but they will already have it pretty defined in their head that you had a good hand and brush it off as that. i think that you should show the hand, as a kind of negative hit to their psych showing them that your not a straight tight player and that you just bluffed them, since it would make them question your other hands in the future and make them think twice before folding therefore increasing your chances of them calling and you making more money.

what are your opinions? would that take away my ability to bluff in the future?
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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what are your opinions?

I have a pretty strict rule for myself with respect to not showing my cards. It's better not to give any info at all rather than try to use reverse-psychology against your opponents. You may not expect it, but if you're up against an observant opponent, it's actually pretty obvious what you're trying to do. Your opponent will see you show down AA/KK etc and premium hands like that, and will notice when you intentionally show a bluff or a weak hand that it's for the reason of loosening your table image. So your tactic might actually work against yourself.

It just gets too complicated, and I try not to show my cards at all.
would that take away my ability to bluff in the future?
maybe; it will definitely loosen your image (which is what you're trying to do by showing a bluff) and make your future bluff attempts less successful.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

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It's not a good Idea to ever show your hand, be it a bluff or not, let them keep thinking, you show them a bluff and yes, it'll make the other players think and more players willl call you more often after that, and then what, now you have more to think about, and if you change up your game, go tight/conservative, playing the same moster hands and you will still make them think without showing your cards and in the long run still make a lot of chips.

But this is just my opinion.
 
buckster436

buckster436

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I Never show my cards, if someone asks me on the chat box, then i tell them, although what i say in the chat might or might Not be truthful//
buck:cool: :D
 
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OneMoreBust

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If I am on a SNG table with a ton of tight players, I will steal a few times in a row, and show my bluffs. This helps loosen up the table.

What information does this give them? They see 3 steal shows, sure they might say, oh well he is being tricky and showing us these for a reason?

Who cares? It really gives them no information since I bluff and I have monsters sometimes... I just want to seed their minds with the thought, this guy isnt always a straight shooter, so when it comes down to them having a straight, with 3 card flush on the table, they might be convinced that im bluffing.

Can this backfire? Depends on what type of player you are. I never risk a lot with a bluff, sure there are times when you really need to take down a pot, but with good play I find the above strategy helps me on a tight table more than it hurts.

On my last table after stealing and showing a few times, I had people go all in with top pair on the flop when I pretended to bluff with 2 pair... easy pickings.
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

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I play with some quite good players who will now & then show there cards. I will show some of my good hands in our regular games but in MTT's or SNG's or ring games with strangers I never show.
 
Bombjack

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Depends... but overall I don't think it's a good idea to show a bluff when you're playing tight. I also think it can be a bit rude, as it makes the other players look silly. The principle advantage of playing tight (apart from the fact that it's easier than playing a good loose game) is that you can bluff more and not get called. So you're shooting yourself in the foot by taking away your bluffing advantage. The other side of the coin is that you might get paid off more for your big hands.

I think it's a more clear cut case if you're playing loose-aggressive to show your good hands, as this puts the fear into people, which is what you want with this style.
 
Stick66

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Depends...
I agree. That's why it is important to pay as much attention to how others view you as you do to how you view others.

If you are seen as tight, show a bluff once in a while so you'll get action with your good stuff. If you are seen as wild, show the nuts occasionally to keep them folding to your bluffs. Pretty simple, really.
 
blankoblanco

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Depends is definitely the best one word answer. Yes, the positive side to showing bluffs is that it may make you more with your better hands later, but the negative side is that it may make it harder to bluff or steal blinds in the future. The thing is, you KNOW the blinds are going to keep increasing... you don't know for sure if you'll be dealt a good hand for the rest of the tournament... for that reason, I value the ability to continue bluffing/stealing with greater success more than I value the ability to probably profit more when I do have a hand. Besides, when you show your cards you might be giving your opponents better information than you realize.

I wouldn't say you should never show your hand, though. But pertaining directly to your example, I'd choose not to.
 
Bombjack

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Agree with combuboom... depends on whether you're playing a tourney or a cash game. Near the end of a tourney, blind stealing becomes important so you want a tight image. Wheras showing the odd bluff in a cash game to show what a loose and crazy player you are can pay off later.

Alternatively, you could just make big bluffs early on in a cash game until you get called, when you have to show. This has the advantage that you win the pots where you're not called, and then get a loose image from the pot you lose. Of course you then tighten up, and people start paying you off. The best players are able to "change gears" so other players really don't have a clue whether they're playing loose or tight.
 
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OneMoreBust

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Honestly, when it gets down near the bubble in a SNG, showing a bluff can tilt someone who just folded away 1/2 of their stack trying to make the money.

It is rude, but it can also be a good strat.


Depends is the best answer.

Poker is a game of information, handing out information for free is a bad idea unless you have some real positive results in doing it (which is hard to prove)
 
Egon Towst

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I had a discussion along similar lines in another recent thread:

https://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=72673

Previously I always mucked, for exactly the reasons your father gave, but I`m now persuaded that there is a case for showing the odd bluff if the table is folding too easily and giving you no action.
 
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ruffcut68

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Hardly Ever, but it depends on the situation
 
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dsm420

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unless there is a strong reason to believe you will put someone on tilt don't show. If there is no immediate benefit the information you give will in the long run benefit your more intelligent opponents.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

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Never show unless they pay to see. The one thing you will find with consistency is that you will always find a caller. Let me ask you, do you think you are the only one during play that doesn't get good cards? Do you think someone is going to fold to you with say Ks or AK or As? Keep playing the way you are and you will be finding yourself in the money more times than most.
 
gord962

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I won't show a bluff, ever. You have to pay to see those cards. I will however show the nuts, ON OCCASION. I usually do this if I think my image has become a bit too loose. The best example I can think of is if I am dealt 4 or 5 really good starting hands in a row and I take the pot down without a showdown, I will show after about 4 or 5 hands. The reason for this is to say "yeah, I've been in the last 4 hands betting big and taking pots uncontested, but I have the cards." This allows me to steal more blinds and pots later on.
 
Irexes

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More often than not, I think people show bluffs not to set opponents on tilt, but to wave their e-penis over the table,

"Look at me!!! I bluffed and I am a pokery GOD!!!!, I'm just like Gus Hansen!!!"

Trouble is the guy you beat may be a bit on tilt but there are up to 8 others rubbing their hands, making notes and starting to bait their hooks.



(for the record, there is the odd occassion when it makes sense, but the ego shouldn't be part of it)
 
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