Hey everyone!

I seem to stumble over a strange player type more recently in cashgames in nl2 up to nl16 and I am not quite sure how to handle them right.

I would normally classify them as loose passive fish or aggro fish (depending on their aggression), but they seem to know very well what they are doing.

Their stats usually look sth like that:
VPIP: 40-55 , PFR 3-10, Agg. 1-6 (depends), WTSD% 25-30 or more.

They always seem to be the highest stacks at the table, 2-5x buy-in amount.

Whenever I have TP + TK they call down and hit their two pair or flush or weird straights. Or I have the pair or set and they get so aggressive that I know I'm beat, or get the feeling that I am at least and then I fold.
But also often they just fold right on flop when I have sth good finally and they have nothing. So I always seem to end up with the short straw, and others too. And they seem to be really selective with their actions rather than their hands. That's why I don't think they're fish and rather really good players in fish disguise 😅

Do you think I should tighten up and play as selectively as I already do and just keep waiting for the math to solve it long term? Or should I get in more pots with them and call them down more often and more loosely since they can not always have it? Seems like an expensive trade to me :/

Thanks in advance for any help, much appreciated!

Originally Posted by Berndsson90

I seem to stumble over a strange player type more recently in cashgames in nl2 up to nl16 and I am not quite sure how to handle them right.

I would normally classify them as loose passive fish or aggro fish (depending on their aggression), but they seem to know very well what they are doing.

Their stats usually look sth like that:
VPIP: 40-55 , PFR 3-10, Agg. 1-6 (depends), WTSD% 25-30 or more.

They always seem to be the highest stacks at the table, 2-5x buy-in amount.

Whenever I have TP + TK they call down and hit their two pair or flush or weird straights. Or I have the pair or set and they get so aggressive that I know I'm beat, or get the feeling that I am at least and then I fold.
But also often they just fold right on flop when I have sth good finally and they have nothing. So I always seem to end up with the short straw, and others too. And they seem to be really selective with their actions rather than their hands. That's why I don't think they're fish and rather really good players in fish disguise 😅

The players you discribe are fish. And I would highly doubt they only have a wtsd of 25-30 over the longrun. Keep in mind that for stats like wtsd w$SD etc you need thousand of hands for them to be accurate.

Getting outdrawn by these passive players most likely has to do with Heros betsizing. Don't get me wrong their calls are most likely - ev as is, but why not capitalize on that?

Start betting bigger 100% 150% pot postflop etc also preflop. If you still get half the table flatting with a 3bb open utg start going bigger. There is players that will call 5bb or more just to see a flop.

VS aggressive ones, widen your value range. And don't be afraid to get it in.

Keep in mind that this is highly exploitable and only works VS complete idiots as you discribed.

Those situations also happen to me, and my approach is to keep playing my A-game against this opponent type.

You have to center in taking the best desition rather than the results, so don't be afraid to get it in if you know that you're ahead or that your opponent is drawing, if he gets there, bad luck; but if that specific situation runs for a thousand times you know that in the long run, you will win.

Originally Posted by Berndsson90

Hey everyone!

I seem to stumble over a strange player type more recently in cashgames in nl2 up to nl16 and I am not quite sure how to handle them right.

I would normally classify them as loose passive fish or aggro fish (depending on their aggression), but they seem to know very well what they are doing.

Their stats usually look sth like that:
VPIP: 40-55 , PFR 3-10, Agg. 1-6 (depends), WTSD% 25-30 or more.

They always seem to be the highest stacks at the table, 2-5x buy-in amount.

Whenever I have TP + TK they call down and hit their two pair or flush or weird straights. Or I have the pair or set and they get so aggressive that I know I'm beat, or get the feeling that I am at least and then I fold.
But also often they just fold right on flop when I have sth good finally and they have nothing. So I always seem to end up with the short straw, and others too. And they seem to be really selective with their actions rather than their hands. That's why I don't think they're fish and rather really good players in fish disguise 😅

Do you think I should tighten up and play as selectively as I already do and just keep waiting for the math to solve it long term? Or should I get in more pots with them and call them down more often and more loosely since they can not always have it? Seems like an expensive trade to me :/

Thanks in advance for any help, much appreciated!

Hey Mate,

I know the frustrations you are experiencing. It's never fun to know someone is playing like a maniac and then have them turn over the goods when you make a big call on them.

An important thing to do is pay attention to their bet size. Even if they bet frequently, do they always bet the same size? Or do they bet small often and very large only occasionally? This is one way people can inflate their aggression stats to seem extra aggro (When in reality most of their bets are small and when they bet very big they have it).

The previous poster also made a good point about watching your own bet sizing. It's important to charge people large amounts if they are trying to outdraw you. The best way to beat loose passive players is to bet when you have it but BET BIG.

Here are a couple of videos that may help as well. One for good LAGs and one for Loose Passives. For maniacs, planning to call down is fine, but make sure you watch the pot size and the bet sizes.

You Tube

You Tube

Hope you find this post helpful!

Nice advices. However, there is always a chance to lose for i fish player with a bad bet hand. thats poker....

Thanks guys for the replies!

I will do my best to implement it and just need to accept that my variance will be bigger in that case.

The bet sizing is a good idea, I often tried to pot control a bit when I had "only" a good or top pair, so I will start charging them premium prices next time. And if they hit their draw I just remind myself of the long run 🙂

Thanks for the advice, definitely have me a good direction!

These players usually end up with nothing.

Whatch closely what they do and dont asume they are whale just because of the stats! If they dont stack off with nonsense than be carefull that u dont overplay your hand. They might be fish and dont know much about poker but even the stupiest might realize that they are beat when u make huge bets. They will even fold their weak draws if its too expensive.. Just sayin

Acting like a fish might be part of his strategy. Some people act like a fish to reel in the sharks. I've done it myself numerous times when at a new casino lol