Set over set....Always going broke?

[Dwilius]

Think about the read you'd have to have on Villain in order to fold 77 on a J72r flop. It would have to be that he's never giving action with an overpair on that board. Same w 22 on that flop.

Yup, I'm always going broke here given the opportunity.

Recently I had the 22 on that exact board and feel I could have folded even though folding sets, especially at 6max, is uh, not good. The flop action went check/bet/I raise/ then either reraise/shove or shove/call before getting back to me. The check/3bet was a reasonably tight player who would be setmining alot and had called a raise preflop. Two pair hands weren't in his range and overpair very unlikely imo...so on a rainbow uncoordinated board after simple raise and calls action preflop that almost has to be a set. I timebank/called to see I had third best set, heh. That's the only time I can recall seriously considered folding a set on a board where made straights or flushes weren't possible (that would be on later streets). The three way action made it pretty clear I was beat, wouldn't be able to narrow hands down nearly as much if it was heads up to the flop.

 

[tomh7795]

I am going broke with a set on a dry board. I don't think many players would fold. Set vs set is very very very rare. If your willing to go broke with a set on a dry flop then you'll be a winner in the long run

 

[ripclawph]

folding a set on hand is a no-no definitely for me, unless there are other draws and more than 2 players involved in a pot. i pot bet it to take out other runners. but if i am faced with a higher set... then i would just tell myself that it isn't really for me. i'll take it back again later...

 

[Skaplun]

poker is a game with thousands of instances, you need to get to a point where you completely disvalue each instance and look at the mathetically correct decision which are winners in the long run. stats are irrelevant when we look at a 10\100 or even 1000 hand sample, even when we talk about players through hud we always say that stats dont converge after 60-70 hands and probably are not th most accurate indication to what can b expected of them. if you look at sets statistically vs any hand with the inclusion of your fh or quad redraw you can never fold ever.

 

[Kasanova King]

If it's a flopped set over set, then a dry board, my money's going in 100% of the time.

 

[gns2003]

Rarely can you dream up a reason to fold a dry board set. I would be broke 99.44% of the time there (the other 0.56% is for my quad on the turn Good luck out there...

 

[Sean Pilgrim]

If it's a flopped set over set, then a dry board, my money's going in 100% of the time.

OMG where you been?!!!?!?!??!

On Topic: Set over set is sick... I'm stacking off everytime.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

THe simplest way to not go broke with set over set is to fold if reraised with a set. You might also want to check-fold if the flop is called on a dry board.

Following that stratagy will ensure that you dont go broke with set over set.

Unfortunately following that strategy will also reduce your earnings form sets and make it difficult to get value form any TPTK hands.

It probability reduces your ability to bluff too as if you fold sets and under to any action then the times you bet people can fold very easily.

You really have to consider your whole stratagy and not just the instances where you lose set over set.

In a 100bb game there simlly isnt enough infomation to make the fold PROFITABLy, i.e. yes if you start folding sets when you feel there might be a higher set out there you will obviously not loose as many times with set over set, the downside is that most of the time a set is the best hand so some of these folds will be made incorrectly and you will fold the best hand more often than you correctly fold set over set.

The result is that your winrate goes down by trying to avoid these situations.

So unless your opponent shows you his cards , you just cannot profitably make this fold in a 100bb game.

 

[Exit141RTe1]

I think I go broke. Dry set, yum yum, but, I have been there before and wonder if I could have done something different. The simple answer is no. Chalk it up to experience, and, move on to your next set.

 

[ROnaLD_G4]

i would almost certainly go broke. hopefully with correct BRM (min. 20 BI of 100BB) it shouldn't cause too much trouble

 

[kmart99]

Folding set over set with no information about your opponent is damn hard. Stack sizes and flop texture dictate everything here.

Ex.

You have 77, UTG goes 2.5x bb and you call, and it goes heads up. Both players are 100bb deep.

Flop: 2 7 J r

UTG bets, you raise, UTG re-raises... UTG could have AA,KK,QQ here right? How often is JJ here? This scenario has busted me many times in cash games, but in tourneys sometimes even AJ is there. The players are much weaker post flop in tourneys.

What about this: you have QQ and flat an UTG raise preflop. Flop comes
AQJr... You bet, position raises, you re raise, they go all in?
They could have AK, AQ, AJ, JJ, or AA... Never fold in this spot. Ever


Unless the board flops 3 to a flush or 3 to a straight, I'm very often going broke.

 

[Sidetracked]

Set over set is a drag when it happens, but I'm always losing a stack when I've got the lower one (same for K high flush vs A high flush with 3 cards of a suit on the board)

 

[Nutcracker69]

Your logic/math/ev over time, etc. may all be correct, but every so often (say, once in 10 years) you can trust your gut and save it.

This has happened to me twice in poker career, was live both times (never folded dry set online) and we both had very deep stacks that we built through hours of playing at the same table.

Was typing out the specifics but lost interest and am busy now. Both times the hands were shown and I was correct.

 

[Vitaliy Popik]

Set`s are strong.. If on the board dont exist straight or flush..

 

[Poker247]

I almost always go broke here. Once I did lay down a set of 4s because the str8 flush and A high flush both could have gotten there based on the board and the betting, but otherwise I'm out.

 

[dragunovich]

i had problems playing deepstack, but as soon as i got ptr3 i decided to start at 2nl playing 200BB deep, and it worked great because i was winning at a higher rate than i was with 100BB deep. especially at micros there are plenty of fish who make a big stack with any 2 cards getting lucky, now these guys are the ones who are going to donate, because they think they are god, they will try to push you around, playing like 50% of their hands, and you got to make them pay and they will eventually.

as for set vs set, i usually go broke, on a dry board, unless i am against some tight arse dude on who i have like 500 hands and he is running numbers like 8/6 or something, and all of a sudden he dicides to go crazy and bet pot on all streets, even so i might still pay.

i had the same problems sometimes

 

[AcesDJD]

You can lay down a set, although middle set is probably almost impossible to lay down unless you have an incredible read. Say you're up against a nit, who you've played with a lot, and he never seems to move his stack in without the nuts. The flop comes J72 rainbow and you both have a grand at 1/2 (can happen even in capped games). You have a set of deuces. You bet out 15. He raises to 45, then you raise to 100 and he pushes all in. This guy is a nit so unless he was in the blinds he doesn't have J7 or 72. He's not raising all in with 10 9. So what could he have? In an unraised pot I would say its an easy fold against the type of player I've outlined.

 

[ranma187]

Short answer: Yes, go broke.

Against a real nit or on some 4 straight or flush board, or when you've got like a 200bb effective stack, maybe you can fold but even stacking in these spots isn't going to be terrible very often.

Folding sets is almost always a sign of getting too fancy for your own good.

I folded a set of 8s on the turn when i donk bet $40, some guy raised and another re raised. the turn made a straight and a flush. Turned out it was the right fold, someone made their draw.

 

[wowasenotrusov]

it's simple math , and written many books about poker . is that the small percentage of about 5 or 10 percent.

 

[Bodomovac]

It depends. If I have flopped the best set, for example I have K J and the flop is K 10 7 , ofcourse I am going to raise a lot, maybe all in, but if with the same hands , flop is J 10 7, then it's a draw for my opponent, and I am not going to go all in, but raise again, maybe 2 pots or 3.

Also if there is a flush draw you will not charge all in.

So my answer is depends on the flop cards, my opponent, and my stack.

 

[JAQK_T]

I think stack depth is a big factor. I'm losing a lot of money but there is a chance to fold.

 

[sttoil]

Def depends how deep you are.
For one stack never folded set.
May be in PLO i will fold bottom set vs reg sometimes

 

[mikeisanace]

What can you do right?

If you hold 77 and the board comes a-8-7-2-k rainbow and you trap call and get beat to 88 then that's life.. Your only lucky enough to evade going broke on flips like 8910 with you as 88 vs 10-10. If the turn come a jack then you fold to action or bet out and get the other guy to fold to action so position is key always..