Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

[John A]

Does anyone use effective BB (2/3 of preflop pot) when calculating stack size?

If you choose to use/not use effective BB why do you choose that method?


The reason I ask is because I see a lot of posts on here like this:

Hero has XX with 7k in chips blinds are 200/400/50 nine handed and its folded around to hero in the hijack. Hero makes is 800 and is shoved in on by a guy who covers on the BTN.

If we calculate based on BB we have 17.5BB and should probably not be opening unless we are willing to call the shove.

If we calculate based on effective BB
(9x50) + 200 + 400 = 1050 1050x(2/3) = 700
we have 10BB and should be playing push/fold.

Using the different methods to calculate BB ends up changing completely how we should play a hand in this spot. I think its an important topic that I need clarification on.

I'm not sure what your question is. Is it, should people be using total effective stacks in tournaments? If so, the answer is yes.

 

[John A]

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 238.5 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 18.57, 3Bet Preflop: 8.47, Hands: 143)
BB: 25.67 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
UTG: 301.83 BB (VPIP: 39.13, PFR: 21.74, 3Bet Preflop: 8.89, Hands: 93)
CO: 309.83 BB (VPIP: 13.91, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 7.32, Hands: 117)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has As Ad
UTG raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, Hero raises to 17.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold



200NL. UTG is a loose maniac. CO seems to be tight but a lot more 3betting from SB. Is flatting aces better than 3betting here?

No, and your 4-bet sizing should still be a bit bigger.

 

[myszek89]

I'm new here. I'd like to say- Hello

 

[Alucard]

No, and your 4-bet sizing should still be a bit bigger.

yeah sizing was a bit off there

 

[John A]

I'm new here. I'd like to say- Hello

Hello.

 

[John A]

New video that I do. It's a quick session review of some hands.

http://drivehud.com/blog/aiovg_videos/ignition-session-review-w-john-a/

 

[Alucard]

BTN: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 29.49, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 8.06, Hands: 162)
SB: 201.83 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
BB: 114 BB (VPIP: 57.93, PFR: 47.59, 3Bet Preflop: 28.26, Hands: 159)
UTG: 270.17 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
MP: 118 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (CO): 107 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jh Th
fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Flop : (20.5 BB, 2 players) Jc 5s 4c
BB bets 10.17 BB, Hero calls 10.17 BB

Turn : (40.83 BB, 2 players) 5d
BB bets 27.17 BB, Hero calls 27.17 BB

River : (95.17 BB, 2 players) Ac
BB bets 66.67 BB and is all-in, fold

180NL
This is the same maniac from this hand earlier. He had Ks8s on that hand
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/100-nlhe-6-max-tough-river-438497/

I'm probably folding almost 100% this river jam vs regs. But don't know if it's ev+ calling vs this guy. another crappy river. He could have anything tbh. Any Ax or pure air.

 

[Alucard]

New video that I do. It's a quick session review of some hands.

http://drivehud.com/blog/aiovg_videos/ignition-session-review-w-john-a/

downloading the vid to watch later

 

[John A]

BTN: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 29.49, PFR: 20.51, 3Bet Preflop: 8.06, Hands: 162)
SB: 201.83 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 3)
BB: 114 BB (VPIP: 57.93, PFR: 47.59, 3Bet Preflop: 28.26, Hands: 159)
UTG: 270.17 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
MP: 118 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
Hero (CO): 107 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jh Th
fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Flop : (20.5 BB, 2 players) Jc 5s 4c
BB bets 10.17 BB, Hero calls 10.17 BB

Turn : (40.83 BB, 2 players) 5d
BB bets 27.17 BB, Hero calls 27.17 BB

River : (95.17 BB, 2 players) Ac
BB bets 66.67 BB and is all-in, fold

180NL
This is the same maniac from this hand earlier. He had Ks8s on that hand
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/100-nlhe-6-max-tough-river-438497/

I'm probably folding almost 100% this river jam vs regs. But don't know if it's ev+ calling vs this guy. another crappy river. He could have anything tbh. Any Ax or pure air.

I hate reading hands in this format. You need a better database.

River fold is fine, but I'm leaning towards a turn shove. Just because there's enough draws out there this guy will have, and some second best hands he might call w/ as well since he's just clicking buttons.

 

[John A]

downloading the vid to watch later

Not my favorite session video, but there's a couple of good points.

 

[John A]

By the way, for guys that have studied with me over the years, if you're interested in Leak Buster 2, PM or email me. I'll get you a massive discount.

 

[Alucard]

UTG: 240.25 BB (VPIP: 25.61, PFR: 16.01, 3Bet Preflop: 6.74, Hands: 541)
Hero (MP): 105.5 BB
CO: 141.5 BB (VPIP: 24.98, PFR: 18.67, 3Bet Preflop: 7.59, Hands: 1,199)
BTN: 144.25 BB (VPIP: 75.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
SB: 129.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BB: 152.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8c 8d
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop : (10.5 BB, 3 players) 7h 4s Td
Hero bets 4.25 BB, CO calls 4.25 BB, BTN calls 4.25 BB

Turn : (23.25 BB, 3 players) 2d
Hero checks, CO bets 15.5 BB, BTN calls 15.5 BB, fold


Is this line fine? BTN's a fish station

 

[John A]

I think since the reg is in the sandwiched position, and will be forced to have a hand to continue, it's fine to bet on the flop. Turn is std of course.

 

[Alucard]

CO: 50.75 BB (VPIP: 26.59, PFR: 19.27, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 956)
BTN: 171.5 BB (VPIP: 51.81, PFR: 10.84, 3Bet Preflop: 2.38, Hands: 88)
SB: 191.25 BB (VPIP: 21.54, PFR: 14.95, 3Bet Preflop: 3.89, Hands: 743)
Hero (BB): 100.5 BB
UTG: 103.75 BB (VPIP: 49.49, PFR: 10.10, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 101)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah Jh
fold, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, BTN calls 4 BB

Flop : (10.5 BB, 2 players) 2c 6c Ac
Hero bets 4.25 BB, BTN raises to 12.75 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB

Turn : (36 BB, 2 players) Jd
Hero checks, BTN bets 24 BB, Hero raises to 82.75 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 58.75 BB


Is this a call or a jam on turn? He has raised my flop cb & bet turn a couple of times

 

[John A]

CO: 50.75 BB (VPIP: 26.59, PFR: 19.27, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 956)
BTN: 171.5 BB (VPIP: 51.81, PFR: 10.84, 3Bet Preflop: 2.38, Hands: 88)
SB: 191.25 BB (VPIP: 21.54, PFR: 14.95, 3Bet Preflop: 3.89, Hands: 743)
Hero (BB): 100.5 BB
UTG: 103.75 BB (VPIP: 49.49, PFR: 10.10, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 101)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah Jh
fold, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, fold, Hero raises to 5 BB, BTN calls 4 BB

Flop : (10.5 BB, 2 players) 2c 6c Ac
Hero bets 4.25 BB, BTN raises to 12.75 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB

Turn : (36 BB, 2 players) Jd
Hero checks, BTN bets 24 BB, Hero raises to 82.75 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 58.75 BB


Is this a call or a jam on turn? He has raised my flop cb & bet turn a couple of times

It's a call, on the turn, but it's probably a fold on the flop. The reason being is the guy is a fish, the A hits your range, and there's no sense in raising w/ worse Ax there. That's not something fish typically do. You're in a trickier spot against a regular there where you should be calling, but in this spot, I think it's a fold against a general fish population.

I almost never ask, but what did he end up having?

 

[Alucard]

I almost never ask, but what did he end up having?

Jc9c

 

[John A]

Jc9c

If I had to bet my poker bankroll I would have put it all on low made flush.

My advice when you get into a similar spot like this again is, just remember, if you folded EVERY single time a fish raised you here, you'd save money in the long run. Every once in a great while, they'll have a bluff, but on the whole we're looking at strong made hands 98% of the time.

Don't worry about being exploited by a fish. It's a non-issue.

 

[Space635]

Got some video lessons or topic about omaha poker?

 

[Alucard]

Had a really bad day yesterday. Got rivered pretty brutally on higher stakes. But I'm assuming all these hands are close to being standard spots?

MP: 161.83 BB (VPIP: 51.16, PFR: 32.56, 3Bet Preflop: 29.41, Hands: 44)
Hero (CO): 97.67 BB
UTG: 144.17 BB (VPIP: 35.96, PFR: 18.42, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 119)

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Kh Kc
UTG raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 9 BB, MP calls 9 BB

Flop : (37.5 BB, 3 players) 2c 3h Kd
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn : (37.5 BB, 3 players) 4d
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets 16.17 BB, UTG calls 16.17 BB, fold

River : (69.83 BB, 2 players) 6h
UTG bets 116 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 69.5 BB and is all-in

Hero shows Kh Kc (Three of a Kind, Kings)
UTG shows 5c 4c (Straight, Six High)
-----------------------------------------

HU 200NL
BB: 67.83 BB (VPIP: 49.32, PFR: 28.77, 3Bet Preflop: 24.14, Hands: 75)
Hero (SB): 245 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8d 7s
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB raises to 7.5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Flop : (15 BB, 2 players) Th 6c 6h
BB bets 7.5 BB, Hero raises to 19.5 BB, BB calls 12 BB

Turn : (54 BB, 2 players) 9h
BB checks, Hero bets 218 BB and is all-in, BB calls 40.83 BB and is all-in

River : (135.67 BB, 2 players) 3h

Hero shows 8d 7s (Straight, Ten High)
BB shows Ad Kh (Flush, King High)
-----------------------------------

Same Guy 200NL HU
BB: 110.33 BB (VPIP: 51.16, PFR: 29.07, 3Bet Preflop: 25.71, Hands: 89)
Hero (SB): 199.17 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah Kd
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB raises to 7.5 BB, Hero raises to 20 BB, BB calls 12.5 BB

Flop : (40 BB, 2 players) Ks 2h Th
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn : (40 BB, 2 players) 9c
BB bets 26.67 BB, Hero calls 26.67 BB

River : (93.33 BB, 2 players) 7c
BB bets 63.67 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 63.67 BB

Hero shows Ah Kd (One Pair, Kings)
BB shows Qd Jc (Straight, King High)

 

[Alucard]

I raised 87o on flop cause he has been 3betting a bit & was putting him on overcards

 

[John A]

I wrote this up today because there was a thread on another forum that went on for quite some time where everyone was really confused on what GTO poker was. They were all using solvers and talking about these ranges (in some cases for years), and still not understanding what GTO play really meant.

https://pokerleakbuster.com/gto-poker-simplified/

 

[John A]

Got some video lessons or topic about omaha poker?

In this thread, no. The coaching in this thread is pretty much all holdem.

 

[John A]

Had a really bad day yesterday. Got rivered pretty brutally on higher stakes. But I'm assuming all these hands are close to being standard spots?

MP: 161.83 BB (VPIP: 51.16, PFR: 32.56, 3Bet Preflop: 29.41, Hands: 44)
Hero (CO): 97.67 BB
UTG: 144.17 BB (VPIP: 35.96, PFR: 18.42, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 119)

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Kh Kc
UTG raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 9 BB, MP calls 9 BB

Flop : (37.5 BB, 3 players) 2c 3h Kd
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

Turn : (37.5 BB, 3 players) 4d
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets 16.17 BB, UTG calls 16.17 BB, fold

River : (69.83 BB, 2 players) 6h
UTG bets 116 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 69.5 BB and is all-in

Hero shows Kh Kc (Three of a Kind, Kings)
UTG shows 5c 4c (Straight, Six High)
-----------------------------------------

3-bet squeeze larger pre. That's way too small. Needs to be 15+.

Bet the flop, it's s 3-bet pot w/ an UTG player call. Why are you checking?

Bet more on the turn. River is a call.

HU 200NL
BB: 67.83 BB (VPIP: 49.32, PFR: 28.77, 3Bet Preflop: 24.14, Hands: 75)
Hero (SB): 245 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8d 7s
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB raises to 7.5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Flop : (15 BB, 2 players) Th 6c 6h
BB bets 7.5 BB, Hero raises to 19.5 BB, BB calls 12 BB

Turn : (54 BB, 2 players) 9h
BB checks, Hero bets 218 BB and is all-in, BB calls 40.83 BB and is all-in

River : (135.67 BB, 2 players) 3h

Hero shows 8d 7s (Straight, Ten High)
BB shows Ad Kh (Flush, King High)
-----------------------------------

Prefer a flop call, but a raise is fine. With what's left, turn is std. What was your question exactly?

Same Guy 200NL HU
BB: 110.33 BB (VPIP: 51.16, PFR: 29.07, 3Bet Preflop: 25.71, Hands: 89)
Hero (SB): 199.17 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ah Kd
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB raises to 7.5 BB, Hero raises to 20 BB, BB calls 12.5 BB

Flop : (40 BB, 2 players) Ks 2h Th
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn : (40 BB, 2 players) 9c
BB bets 26.67 BB, Hero calls 26.67 BB

River : (93.33 BB, 2 players) 7c
BB bets 63.67 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 63.67 BB

Hero shows Ah Kd (One Pair, Kings)
BB shows Qd Jc (Straight, King High)

Why another flop check? River is a fold unless you've seen this guy turn a lot of bluffs.

 

[Alucard]

3-bet squeeze larger pre. That's way too small. Needs to be 15+.

Bet the flop, it's s 3-bet pot w/ an UTG player call. Why are you checking?

Aren't their calling ranges way too weak in this spot. So betting top set 3way 3bet pot didn't make much sense. Specially since we don't need that much protection

 

[John A]

Aren't their calling ranges way too weak in this spot. So betting top set 3way 3bet pot didn't make much sense. Specially since we don't need that much protection

UTG open, his 3-bet calling range should be fairly strong. Your sizing is going to reduce their range a bit, but still, even though you have top set, you want to c-bet to get value from all pairs. Your top set is a K, so you're only getting 2 streets of value if an A hits on the turn any ways. It's better to just bet here w/ your whole range.