Poker Myths

t1riel

t1riel

Legend
I recently read an article by Daniel Negreanu on poker myths that I think is worth mentioning and debating.

Myth#1: Poker is illegal.

False, the U.S. government recognizes poker as a game of skill. Playing poker for money in some instances is illegal, It's not illegal about playing poker with friends, or even playing poker for a living.

Myth #2: It takes several years to learn.

Maybe several years ago. But now with the interent and the books out there today, it's easier than ever to learn how to play poker at a competitive level.

Myth #3: Poker is all about bluffing.

"That's one of the big mistakes novice players make when they start out in poker. Professionals win by getting full value for their strong hands, while minimizing their losses on losing hands. Bluffing is a tool that should be used sporadically, making it that much more effective."

Myth #4: It's a man's game.

Wrong. There are a growing number of woman playing poker these days. "One of the world's best players, Jennifer Harman, is a regular winner in the world's biggest cash game against the likes of Chip Reese and Phil Ivey."

Myth #5: online poker is rigged.
"Before the arrival of online poker, complainers blamed the casino dealer for their bad luck. Online poker has become the new victim of abuse from players who would rather blame their computer than their lack of poker skills."

Myth #6: Poker is gambling and you have to gamble to make it fun.

Yeah, you can gamble on poker but you can also gamble on Monopoly, hopscotch or even the flip of a coin. That doesn't mean you have to gamble to make them fun.

Myth #7: No Limit Hold'em is the most skillful form of poker.

Actually, Pot Limit Hold'em requires more skill, mainly because it gives solid players a bigger advantage and takes away the beginner's deadly all-in weapon. Not to mention, more sophisticated post-flop play.

Myth #8: The game is all luck.

This comment is usually made by people who don't understand poker or haven't figured out how to win at it. There are thousands of skilled professional poker players in the world. There are other forms of casino gambling, like craps, Keno and Let it Ride and there are no professional Let it Ride players.

Let the debating begin!
 
Osmann

Osmann

Guest
t1riel said:
Myth #7: No Limit Hold'em is the most skillful form of poker.

Actually, Pot Limit Hold'em requires more skill, mainly because it gives solid players a bigger advantage and takes away the beginner's deadly all-in weapon. Not to mention, more sophisticated post-flop play.

I don't think there are any correct answers to what pokergame reuires the most skill. Arguments can be made for and against all the sorts of poker. You can't compare limit with no limit, or omaha with texas hold'em. All the games reuire different kinds of skill, so I don't really see the point in comparing them.
 
Sammyv1

Sammyv1

Legend
Myth#1: Poker is illegal.

False, the U.S. government recognizes poker as a game of skill. Playing poker for money in some instances is illegal, It's not illegal about playing poker with friends, or even playing poker for a living.

With the recent exposure on TV. Most people know its not illegal Now!

Myth #2: It takes several years to learn.

Maybe several years ago. But now with the interent and the books out there today, it's easier than ever to learn how to play poker at a competitive level.

Agree here: I've only been playing just ove a year. I've play a ton of hands on line. I'm not "good" yet, but I can hold my own.

Myth #3: Poker is all about bluffing.

"That's one of the big mistakes novice players make when they start out in poker. Professionals win by getting full value for their strong hands, while minimizing their losses on losing hands. Bluffing is a tool that should be used sporadically, making it that much more effective."

I used to bluff, now I rarely do. Especially on line. Most Donk's call with bottom pair any way. Just wait till there beat.

Myth #4: It's a man's game.

Wrong. There are a growing number of woman playing poker these days. "One of the world's best players, Jennifer Harman, is a regular winner in the world's biggest cash game against the likes of Chip Reese and Phil Ivey."

My wife loves to play! And ask Freak, his wife just took him out for a big payday.

Myth #5: Online poker is rigged.
"Before the arrival of online poker, complainers blamed the casino dealer for their bad luck. Online poker has become the new victim of abuse from players who would rather blame their computer than their lack of poker skills."

No. I get as many AA as the next guy.

Myth #6: Poker is gambling and you have to gamble to make it fun.

Yeah, you can gamble on poker but you can also gamble on Monopoly, hopscotch or even the flip of a coin. That doesn't mean you have to gamble to make them fun.

Played in games before without money. Tried just as hard. (Bragging rights ya now.)

Myth #7: No Limit Hold'em is the most skillful form of poker.

Actually, Pot Limit Hold'em requires more skill, mainly because it gives solid players a bigger advantage and takes away the beginner's deadly all-in weapon. Not to mention, more sophisticated post-flop play.

Tough to decide wich one is "MOST" skillfull. Reading players is a part of all the games.

Myth #8: The game is all luck.

This comment is usually made by people who don't understand poker or haven't figured out how to win at it. There are thousands of skilled professional poker players in the world. There are other forms of casino gambling, like craps, Keno and Let it Ride and there are no professional Let it Ride players.

Beginners all believe this. A seasoned amature can dominate over a beginner.
 
starfall

starfall

Visionary
I'd agree that No Limit is not the most skillful variant, that Pot Limit is. I'd also question whether Holdem is the most skillful game.
Holdem requires good people-reading skills and psychology, but then again so does Draw (and Razz). It requires more psychology than Limit poker or even Pot Limit Omaha, I'd argue that if you wanted to determine the most skillful poker player, you'd play Pot Limit HORSE.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
t1riel said:
Myth #8: The game is all luck.

This comment is usually made by people who don't understand poker or haven't figured out how to win at it. There are thousands of skilled professional poker players in the world. There are other forms of casino gambling, like craps, Keno and Let it Ride and there are no professional Let it Ride players.
this is the one i think people who don't play poker believe the most; I know so may people who think that poker is gambling, which it is sometimes, but for the majority skill plays a huge part.
It's very frustrating trying to tell someone like this that you can legitimately make a second income or your primary income from poker.
 
P

PartTimePoker

Guest
Here's my .02:

Myth#1: Poker is illegal.
False, the U.S. government recognizes poker as a game of skill. Playing poker for money in some instances is illegal, It's not illegal about playing poker with friends, or even playing poker for a living.

Dan's flat wrong: In may states in the US, poker is explicitly illegal - altho the illegality is usually in the act of organizing and profiting from the game. In at least two states, online gambling is specifically illegal.

Myth #2: It takes several years to learn.
Maybe several years ago. But now with the interent and the books out there today, it's easier than ever to learn how to play poker at a competitive level.

Dan is half-right: the argument that the internet has made it easier to be a competitive player is accurate in a sense, but it ignores that logical extension of the argument - that online poker has made the average player much better, so becoming a better than average player still takes a decent amount of time. Put simply, you still have to work harder than the next person to be better than they are.

Myth #3: Poker is all about bluffing.
"That's one of the big mistakes novice players make when they start out in poker. Professionals win by getting full value for their strong hands, while minimizing their losses on losing hands. Bluffing is a tool that should be used sporadically, making it that much more effective."

Dan's completely right, except for tournament play, where strong moves that over-state the value of your hand are critical.


Myth #4: It's a man's game.

Wrong. There are a growing number of woman playing poker these days. "One of the world's best players, Jennifer Harman, is a regular winner in the world's biggest cash game against the likes of Chip Reese and Phil Ivey."

Dan undermines his own point by his example - the gold standard of poker is still male players, i.e. Jennifer can hold her own against 'the likes of' famous male players. When women start to be regularly included in that list, he'll be right. Please note that I think women players are just as good as men - that's not the question at hand. The question is whose game it is, and men are still receiving an overwhelming amount of the total exposure and prize money.

Myth #5: Online poker is rigged.
"Before the arrival of online poker, complainers blamed the casino dealer for their bad luck. Online poker has become the new victim of abuse from players who would rather blame their computer than their lack of poker skills."

Dan is half right. Collusion is a snap in the online arena, so online poker is rigged - just not by the house.


Myth #6: Poker is gambling and you have to gamble to make it fun.

Yeah, you can gamble on poker but you can also gamble on Monopoly, hopscotch or even the flip of a coin. That doesn't mean you have to gamble to make them fun.

Dan is largely wrong. Without something wagered, poker becomes a largely meaningless game for most.

Myth #7: No Limit Hold'em is the most skillful form of poker.

Actually, Pot Limit Hold'em requires more skill, mainly because it gives solid players a bigger advantage and takes away the beginner's deadly all-in weapon. Not to mention, more sophisticated post-flop play.

This is a bit of an overstatment but PL is a trickier game

Myth #8: The game is all luck.

This comment is usually made by people who don't understand poker or haven't figured out how to win at it. There are thousands of skilled professional poker players in the world. There are other forms of casino gambling, like craps, Keno and Let it Ride and there are no professional Let it Ride players.

Dan is mostly right. Poker involves way more luck than most advocates of the game would like to believe.


That's what I think. It's early for me, take it easy :D
 
robwhufc

robwhufc

Cardschat Elite
PartTimePoker said:
Dan is mostly right.
I'm sure Daniel Negreanu will be chuffed to hear this.

I dont agree with you that men are receiving the "overwhelming" majority of media exposure. I think that 2nd tier women players like Evelyn Ng, Clonie Gowen and Isabelle "No Titles" Mercier get far more exposure (and sponsorship) than male players of similar ability, soley because of their looks.
P.S welcome to the site
 
C

Cardsharp

Guest
PartTimePoker said:
Myth #5: Online poker is rigged.
"Before the arrival of online poker, complainers blamed the casino dealer for their bad luck. Online poker has become the new victim of abuse from players who would rather blame their computer than their lack of poker skills."

Dan is half right. Collusion is a snap in the online arena, so online poker is rigged - just not by the house.

By that standard,though, all poker is riged. Collusion is just as easy in home games. Then you can throw in base dealing, deck stacking, marked cards etc... and it becomes much more dangerous than online poker. I wouldnt realy say it's rigged, although you can be cheated. Actualy, this brings to mind an article i read about a month ago about online poker being rigged. You should check it out. http://www.billrini.com/index.php/2...poker-is-rigged
 
starfall

starfall

Visionary
I'd agree that some of the women get a certain amount of attention because of the media wanting to portray poker as sexy as well as exciting.
When you see programs like Poker Royale: Battle of the Sexes, it's quite apparent that players like Evelyn Ng aren't in the same league as Cathy Liebert, but they Ng will generally get more exposure, because she's a lot better looking. Men get more exposure in total, because poker has a lot more male players than female competing in the major tournaments. It's not about saying it's a man's game or woman's game, it's a male-dominated field at the moment, so as a result most of the best players are male, but you only have to see the way Liebert suckered Esfandiari and others into making some terrible calls in the final of the Battle of the Sexes event to see that it's not only men that can play poker.
 
P

PartTimePoker

Guest
Quick replies:

1) Collusion is insanely easier online than it is in live play. That's not even a debate. Collusion can occur in live games, but that's not a compelling reason for arguing that the levels of collusion occurring in each venue are the same.

2) Poker is still a male-dominated field that oozes sexism and chauvinism. A few attractive women getting some coverage doesn't alter that fact. Men are still the tv heroes / role models of the game, still get the big money endorsements and the majority of the focus and attention. Besides, your response twists the original question - is poker a "man's game"? What that question suggests is another question - "who controls poker?" I think the majority of women who have played poker live would have a different answer than Dan.

Chris
 
C

Cardsharp

Guest
I geuse I didn't realy word that how I meant it. I didn't realy mean to say that it was just as easy, just stateing that confederacy is no reason to say that online poker is "rigged".
 
Bill_Hollorian

Bill_Hollorian

Rock Star
Pot limit absolutely requires mor skill than No limit for flop games like Omaha and Holdem.

Other games of poker require different skll sets. Stud and non flop games require memory skills that will never get challenged in Holdem.

draw games like 2-7 triple draw requires another skill set.

Holdem measures a certain skill set only. And therefor cannot be said to be the most skillul game.

Bill
 
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