Pocket kings question

[WVHillbilly]

Well I guess I play differently than some.

Why on earth would anyone check behind on this flop? There are only 3 other aces in the deck, and some of you talking like villain absolutely - no questions asked - has the ace here.

OP might as well just tell villain "hey, I don't have an ace" by checking behind. If villain calls flop, ranging starts there for me. I am not checking flop, and just giving away the chance to win the pot right there.

And you can certainly get some info by betting flop. And just because villain calls, doesn't mean he has the ace or 2.

I'd rather win some money by checking the flop but you can pay for your info if you want.

We don't need to try to win the pot right there. Our hand is strong or it's crap (hey maybe that's why they call it Way Ahead / Way Behind???). The turn card rarely changes whether our hand is best.

 

[Dorugremon]

Alright so we get pocket kings and raise and pick up a call from a reg. flop comes A22r reg checks.

I hate when that happens.

Now if we bet are we only getting called by better? Do we check back here an see if he fires the turn or bet and try to get all of his pocket pairs to fold??

This is one of those situations where what you do is highly villain dependent. Against some vills, you can lead out. If the turn bricks, then you can bet bigger than his resolve to call, even if he does have a weak ace, and has demonstrated he can lay one down and/or is the type who runs nutscared, and might figure you for a deuce.

However, be aware: there are some fish out there who never saw an ace they didn't like, and will never turn one loose. If they're out kicked, they figure it's bad luck, not bad play. You definitely don't want to be multibarrelling into such a player.

If some nitty player who hasn't done a thing in two hours suddenly wakes up, look out! He probably hit three deuces.

My own inclination would be to lead into that flop if the vill "checks to the raiser", and see what he does. Here, you have to be prepared to lay those cowboys down if you have a reason to believe they're no good.

 

[Beanfacekilla]

I'd rather win some money by checking the flop but you can pay for your info if you want.

We don't need to try to win the pot right there. Our hand is strong or it's crap (hey maybe that's why they call it Way Ahead / Way Behind???). The turn card rarely changes whether our hand is best.

Fair enough.

 

[pokerdave77]

dont try to make people fold top pair by double barreling.

but much more importantly if you decide you want to have a range that double barrels as a bluff? why on earth would you put KK in that range?

This.

most bets are going to be searching for info so all depends on what your raise bet was and the what you expect your opp to do if they dont have an ace any bet should be one you are willing to give up however if you dont like their responce

And this. If villain is aggressive you'd be better off checking it back on the flop because he is capable of raising the flop with air and you'd be folding the best hand.

If he plays straight forwardly you can go ahead and cbet and more often then not you will pickup the pot. If you get called, reevaluate on the turn. At the micros, if you check the turn and they bet, you're very likely beat.

At the end of the day, with KK you can't expect to get 3 streets of value from worse on a Axx board, so you're going to have to check a street.

 

[Aleksei]

And this. If villain is aggressive you'd be better off checking it back on the flop because he is capable of raising the flop with air and you'd be folding the best hand.

If Villain is a super-aggro retard I can often assume that he has an absurd amount of air here (because he thinks I can only have more air since so few hands hit here) and I have the best hand so often I can just stack him.

 

[pokerdave77]

If Villain is a super-aggro retard I can often assume that he has an absurd amount of air here (because he thinks I can only have more air since so few hands hit here) and I have the best hand so often I can just stack him.

Terrible logic. You're only getting called when you're beat.

 

[Aleksei]

Terrible logic. You're only getting called when you're beat.

Well... no, not if I can trick him into spewing, which isn't terribly difficult. I'm not just jamming in, that'd be stupid (overbet bluffing is stupid in most cases anyway); I just have to get him to bluff jam and call off.

 

[pokerdave77]

Well... no, not if I can trick him into spewing, which isn't terribly difficult. I'm not just jamming in, that'd be stupid (overbet bluffing is stupid in most cases anyway); I just have to get him to bluff jam and call off.

lol what drugs are you smoking bro.

 

[RodneyC86]

Well... no, not if I can trick him into spewing, which isn't terribly difficult. I'm not just jamming in, that'd be stupid (overbet bluffing is stupid in most cases anyway); I just have to get him to bluff jam and call off.

Aren't you concerned about over leveling yourself?

 

[kworm2013]

I think we should make the pool smaller.There is 22 on the flop,if he didn't have nuts,he will not make the pool bigger.KK is not strong enough to make a big pool too.

 

[Aleksei]

Aren't you concerned about over leveling yourself?

It depends on the player. Vs a hyperaggro retard we can just make it look like we're trying to make a move and they'll bluff-jam with the most ridiculous amount of air imaginable. One strategy my mentor taught me was donk underbetting flop/turn then checking river to make it look like I'm giving up. It works every time, because lagtards are just itching for excuses to make moves and prove just how big their balls are.

This is probably a super-marginal spot to do that in of course, but vs lagtard it's at worst a coinflip. Only thing they can have is an Ace or air, and only 11.5% of possible combinations are Aces in this spot.

 

[duggs]

no offence alek but trying to gii here seems redic.

 

[Aleksei]

None taken. See sig.

 

[evildoesit2003]

You can try to bet to make him think you got an ace and hope he doesn.t, lately pocket kings have been doing me in, maybe should fold them lol!

 

[Cafeman]

You can try to bet to make him think you got an ace

I usually rep quads or nothing, let's go!

Seriously, without wanting to be too reductive (WA/WB), just read WV's post, learn something and move on.

 

[Aces2w1n]

Alright so we get pocket kings and raise and pick up a call from a reg. flop comes A22r reg checks. Now if we bet are we only getting called by better? Do we check back here an see if he fires the turn or bet and try to get all of his pocket pairs to fold??

If you have position on this guy, i'd definetly raise his check, but it really depends how you've played against him in the past and how you play your other hands as well.

If your OOP and your only raising with premiums well your definetly not going to get much action any way you play it unless your beat because he has no reason to assume your in the hand in EP without the starting premiums. If you do check then he'll assume your weak or scared of the ace possibly... You could probably make your move on the turn but ofc when you check on the flop your really putting yourself in that position WHERE ARE YOU AT? but on the upside of being a TAG he should easily fold against any future streets if he doesn't end up with the nuts even when he does bet.

In position you can play it trickier but ofc I'm always a fan of just betting as you would normally with AK and make the opponent guess and if he has a strong ace and calls, well you know where your at at least and can shutdown the hand, if you slowplay it well you might get suckered into the hand and loose more over the long run... It's definetly a scenario where your going to win a small pot and loose a big pot if your not too careful.

The only two ways your going to get big value out of this hand... If he has a strong ace and you hit your king on the turn or the river... Or your playing an absolute fish.

Somewhere in cardchat ... Perhaps google it the WAY AHEAD WAY BEHIND theory it might help... it suggests checking is the best on the flop... Probably min raising and suckering the guy in all the way if he flats you.


Good luck and I hope it helps