Playing against fish or strong opponents

Dobbler1

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I've seen a funny thing from some players. They seem not to want to play against fish. I had a tight player play a hand aggressively and I called with a draw a little wide. Arguably I was the fish in this scenario, as if my opponent didn't have any bluffs in his raising range I wasn't getting the right price to chase. I hit my straight and he paid me off with his set. Nothing all that controversial, except then the guy called me a name and shortly afterward left the table, even though there were some obvious and egregious fish at the table.

I get how it's always annoying to be sucked out on, but isn't this the situation we're looking for? If someone shows me that they call wide, they are showing me something exploitable about their game, and I am super happy to exploit it, even if I get sucked out on sometimes. It's a gift, but I think lots of people don't see it that way. How common do you think this failure to appreciate an opportunity is? It's as if players only want to play against strong opponents.
 
nerobs9

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Hi, friend!
For some reason, many regulars are afraid to play against beginners, as they believe that they are very unpredictable. In general, it is.)

I think you should just play your game and the fish will just give you the chips.
 
MK_

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I think it's just the nature of the game, everyone thinks they're the best and everyone else is a fish, unless they get lucky and then that's ok.. another thing is a lot of players will essentially let you get there because of their poor bet sizing, or maybe it was a bad call but that's where they will make their money most of the time, just not this time oh well lol!
 
hennessy5

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Dont overthink, just bet big when you have when playing against fish
 
Zaner

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Hi, friend!
For some reason, many regulars are afraid to play against beginners, as they believe that they are very unpredictable. In general, it is.)

I think you should just play your game and the fish will just give you the chips.
that's right,just wait and he will give all chips for you.
 
Syltan

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I assure you, if a player wants to play with a strong opponent and not with a weak one, this is just stupidity.
 
Dobbler1

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I assure you, if a player wants to play with a strong opponent and not with a weak one, this is just stupidity.
I agree, but it seems like a semi-common form of stupidity. I even sort of get it.
 
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I think the player you describe is a 'bad reg', as getting tilted that easily and leaving a good game are not signs of a good player.

I rather play with fish, even though it can be frustrating at times when they suck out
 
Luka22guro

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I've seen a funny thing from some players. They seem not to want to play against fish. I had a tight player play a hand aggressively and I called with a draw a little wide. Arguably I was the fish in this scenario, as if my opponent didn't have any bluffs in his raising range I wasn't getting the right price to chase. I hit my straight and he paid me off with his set. Nothing all that controversial, except then the guy called me a name and shortly afterward left the table, even though there were some obvious and egregious fish at the table.

I get how it's always annoying to be sucked out on, but isn't this the situation we're looking for? If someone shows me that they call wide, they are showing me something exploitable about their game, and I am super happy to exploit it, even if I get sucked out on sometimes. It's a gift, but I think lots of people don't see it that way. How common do you think this failure to appreciate an opportunity is? It's as if players only want to play against strong opponents.
Perhaps you behaved quite unpredictably in this situation, or rather, only the fish might have behaved like that or got out of such hands, but you won from this, then you are in the plus. But on a permanent basis, if you do this, you will be at a long distance in - so the main thing is to know the middle ground.
 
Stringy

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i like to fry my fish with some salt and pepper. I think If I play well and maybe tight I'm likely to beat fishes easily
 
Dobbler1

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Perhaps you behaved quite unpredictably in this situation, or rather, only the fish might have behaved like that or got out of such hands, but you won from this, then you are in the plus. But on a permanent basis, if you do this, you will be at a long distance in - so the main thing is to know the middle ground.
Not really. He was SB I was BB, He raised and I called with A/rag suited. Flop came 10-Q-blank rainbow, and he bet half pot. He had been super tight so I thought he probably caught a piece of it, but I had backdoor flush and straight draws, and while I didn't think he had many bluffs, I hadn't played enough hands to feel like my read was super strong. So I floated. K hit, another half pot bet. My flush draw was gone, but I still had a straight draw and lots of bluff possibilities depending on the river. It was a scary board and he seemed cautious, I had a blocker to the nuts, so I put in a small three bet to see if I could push him off the pot, and he called. J hit the river, I shoved. He grudgingly called. He had QQ. So I was behind until the river, and I was certainly lucky to catch my 3 outer, but I don't think I was a fish.

I mean if you removed the possibility of either of us bluffing and played cards face up, then I was totally a fish, but on the possibility that he was bluffing or that he was weaker than he was and might have folded to aggression, I would happily play my cards the same way, at least a portion of the time, in the same situation.

As far as unpredictability goes, being predictable is identical to being exploitable, so I hope I was unpredictable. I hope I continue to be. Even to anyone reading my explanation of my play.
 
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722Wade722

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Don’t really have a preference, to me it’s more important to be able to identify the regs and the recs, figure out how they play and adjust accordingly.
 
Rockyfour

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I'm not going to comment on if I think the play was fishy or not, but I can see how the hand tilted the other player lol.
 
black and

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Fish is unpredictable. Strong, experienced players are more predictable opponents in my opinion. Playing against fish requires luck.
 
BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch

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That's all on them.

If they sit there and don't realize what you're playing and how far their opponent is willing to go on a draw then that's on them.

If they don't know about board texture and just say "I couldn't get away from that hand" after losing a buyin with that set then they didn't learn from the play. They will more than likely continue believing whatever got them in that mess or wake up and either figure out a strategy to deal with that type of play and how to deal with the psychology of losing that way.

If I was in a half way decent mood, I would have looked up and said "nice hand" while keeping the pot small until I knew what you played because "alarm bells should have been ringing" when you call that half sized bet especially if they know you're the type of player that noticed they're tight player like they've been at the table for 1 hour and played like 2 hands all that time, lol.

Nope, that's on them.

And people have to be very careful what they say to people live because they never know who they're dealing with, lol. Looks can be very deceiving, lol. And that's really not a way a regular would act either.

So I wouldn't take it personally. Play your game and it's on them to figure out how to beat you.
 
J

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I have found at times that applying poker strategy may only be beneficial if your opponent does the same.

A single bad player or two at the table are great to have around to exploit. On the flip side, playing at a table full of them will make it nearly impossible to win consistently. Fish hate to fold, it's like they're allergic to it. When you get 5 or 6 calls on every pre-flop raise, well that's just a coin flip. And it makes it extremely difficult to put them on any type of range.

Personally, the better the table, the more success I tend to have. (*Edit - I'll rephrase this to "The closer the skill level of the table is to mine" ;))
 
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Dobbler1

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I have found at times that applying poker strategy may only be beneficial if your opponent does the same.

A single bad player or two at the table are great to have around to exploit. On the flip side, playing at a table full of them will make it nearly impossible to win consistently. Fish hate to fold, it's like they're allergic to it. When you get 5 or 6 calls on every pre-flop raise, well that's just a coin flip. And it makes it extremely difficult to put them on any type of range.

Personally, the better the table, the more success I tend to have.
There are ways to consistently beat bad players, even if they are most of the players at the table. If you don't adjust your game based on the type of fish, that's on you. It's super easy to adjust your game to counter players that call every raise if you think about it.

I just got AA 3 times and KK once over the course of about 30 hands and got exactly zero action. You know what I would have given to get that run of hands on a table full of calling stations?
 
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J

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There are ways to consistently beat bad players,
Well, yes, I agree. Which is what I was originally saying. However, I stand by my statement regarding tables full of players like this, as opposed to just playing against one or two. I think those are two completely different approaches.

If you have an "easy adjustment" to this, I would love to hear it. I admittedly struggle with this situation. Regarding your comment about "players that call every raise" I would find it incredibly difficult to put these players on any sort of range and "exploit" them, especially if the entire table is playing this way. Other than hitting the absolute nuts and just bringing them along, of course.
 
Dobbler1

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Well, yes, I agree. Which is what I was originally saying. However, I stand by my statement regarding tables full of players like this, as opposed to just playing against one or two. I think those are two completely different approaches.

If you have an "easy adjustment" to this, I would love to hear it. I admittedly struggle with this situation. Regarding your comment about "players that call every raise" I would find it incredibly difficult to put these players on any sort of range and "exploit" them, especially if the entire table is playing this way. Other than hitting the absolute nuts and just bringing them along, of course.
Play a tight range with no preflop bluffs and a open with very large bet sizes. Cbet large and frequently. Don't consider fold equity, just hand equity. Probably you'll find that there is a bet size that does lead to a preflop fold or two. Adjust your value bet sizes and fold equity calculations based on that bet size. FWIW, I've found 7BB to open and potX3 as a 3bet is often the number, but it'll vary by table. If a player doesn't have a number and will call literally all bet sizes preflop, then print money. If they suck out and stack you, reload and take their cash. I 100% guarantee you that strategy will beat a table full of calling stations over time. The only thing that could possibly go wrong is if you 1) loose patience and tilt or 2) the fish leave before you get a chance for variance to even out. Be aggressive, but obviously don't be a moron post flop.
 
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Dobbler1

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AA against 4 garbage hands is still 60%. You'll loose some of them, but you'll win more. Premium hands beat garbage more than they loose to it. That's a mathematical fact. Getting it in against 4 players just means you are more likely to quadruple up instead of doubling up.
 
Chebchoub

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I've seen a funny thing from some players. They seem not to want to play against fish. I had a tight player play a hand aggressively and I called with a draw a little wide. Arguably I was the fish in this scenario, as if my opponent didn't have any bluffs in his raising range I wasn't getting the right price to chase. I hit my straight and he paid me off with his set. Nothing all that controversial, except then the guy called me a name and shortly afterward left the table, even though there were some obvious and egregious fish at the table.

I get how it's always annoying to be sucked out on, but isn't this the situation we're looking for? If someone shows me that they call wide, they are showing me something exploitable about their game, and I am super happy to exploit it, even if I get sucked out on sometimes. It's a gift, but I think lots of people don't see it that way. How common do you think this failure to appreciate an opportunity is? It's as if players only want to play against strong opponents.
Hi:)
In general, a fish player will often surprise you if you underestimate him.
But in my opinion, the fish player is not only always a beginner, but also the player who raises while expecting to be a winner, or also raises while seeing himself as a loser on the board.
 
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