Moving from 2NL to 5NL - your advise please

[absoluthamm]

Well you will likely hear this from guys that have not played microstakes for some time.... or ateast the lower ones!

Yes you are right, atleast there is not a great deal or skill difference between 10NL and 5. But its not just about the differnce in the players you face.

You need to have a LARGE edge over these players to make up for the rake that you pay in order to make a good consistant winrate. This also gives you the psychological advantage you need. When you feel confident and good about the game you are playing, you play well and the beats affect you less.

If you go from merely comfortable beating 2NL (4BB/100) and move up I guarantee that the beats and larger bet sizing will combine and hamper your confidence enough to turn you from a marginal winner into another breakeven frustrated player. It happened to me.... twice.

I played Facebook, then 2NL and then 5NL and am now trying to find my feet at 10.

IMO you shouldnt move up a stake untill you are really destroying the one you are at (5-6BBs over 30k hands)

Also coming from someone who plays the micros and have played a lot at them, 2NL, 5NL and 10NL. There is no substantial difference between them. This isn't coming from some 400NL player, but someone who has seen it firsthand. Now the real difference comes when you go from Facebook(which I personally can't understand why anyone would waste their time on) to any cash game. The biggest thing that YOU will notice when you're moving up is probably that you're getting scared to make the shoves you need to because of the fact that it is going to be for 2x+ more than you're used to shoving with and you're thinking about how long it may have taken you to build that up at your last level.

Also 30K hands isn't a big enough sample to really tell that you're destroying a level. It can tell you that you're doing well at the level, but I've seen many heaters and coolers that have lasted that long.

As someone who has recently played 2nl and 5nl and onto 10nl I have to say there isnt much diff between them all. The basic principal is that your weaknesses aren't being exploited in these games.

Ya, there are less people in 5nl that will just spew their chips to you or go to the river with gutshots but the way you're winning at 2nl wont be any different then at 5nl. Basic fundamental ABC poker is still the way to win at these games and if you dont have as many spewtards you will have more weaktights and you should be able to win a lot more small pots, which really add up.

EDIT:Basically everyone still sucks one way or the other. The ones that you come across that seem pretty good wont be there long anyways cause they move up.

Another guy that has seen it firsthand and knows that there is no real difference.

I honestly believe you should not really worry about it. People will tell you it is different but the fact is that it is pretty much the same game and the same rules apply

The fact of he matter is, that the majority of players over adjust when taking shots/moving up. Most players can admit that when moving up, things don;t always go smoothly, its pretty much the same at every level.

But as Mayo said, playing a 14/12 style at 2nl and winning, is pretty much gonna be winning at 5nl by the same rate. You guys need to get a fking grip and understanding of variance quick and stop thinking "oh shit this is level is well tougher".

Fish are fish, they dont play much differently at 2nl, 10nl or even 100nl, theyre fish ffs. It should be intuitive to you all that as you go up, fish become less and there are more regs. So table select and play with more fish, or learn how to beat regs.

Mayo and Jag know what they are talking about, they don't say things just to look down on you, shut up and listen to people who know from experience. You arguing with them but wanting others advice is like not taking advice from a pro basketball player on how to play, but listening to a first year middle school player on the topic...

 

[ALL IN CLUBS]

I have played over 200,000 hands in .01-.02 over 82,000 hands .02-.05
and over 70,000 hands .5-.10 nl FR .I agree .2 .5 .10 so far is poker no diff. play your game make sure you have a big enough bankroll to feel comfortable when the beats come,Review your sessions afterwards. I wont say what i would suggest on how much of a bankroll to have each level because the flamers will show up, but more is better. play one type of game only Fr or 6max , dont mix up tables like some .1-.2 and some .2-.5 ,one or the other to keep your mind focused. If you lose 2.5-3 buy-ins stop that session,and review it, dont tilt dont tilt dont tilt. And good luck ..

 

[alaskabill]

Finally started playing 5nl over the last couple of days. Only a 1000 hands or so but I have to say that I don't see much difference. I'm still getting called down by people holding A3 offsuit or any 2 random suited cards. As long as I don't let the increased dollar amounts bother me I don't see a problem.

Of course it goes without saying 1K hands=lol sample size.

 

[Theblueduce]

If you feel ready....take a shot......IMO I have to agrre with alaskabill in that I have not seen that much of a difference in play from 2NL to 5 or even 10NL..

 

[CistaCista]

Thanks for all the comments everyone, it's really great!

There are less all ins so you have to learn to value bet. 1/2 to 2/3 pot and you'll get 2nd pair to call you. Slow play monsters and you'll get a lot of action.

I think this is very solid advise and one difference that could have an effect.

At 2NL I am jumping allin a lot, and asap. If for instance I have trips and see no danger, i go allin on the turn and find a lot of guys will follow with e.g. top pair and/or a draw and die.

When I move up I will probably stop doing that and go for value instead.

 

[NEWTDOG101]

The question I think you should ask yourself is can I afford to play at this level and loose and if your answer is no then stay where you are still the answer is yes. The basic structure of the game does not change the higher you go but remember there are rich donks out there that can give there money away to you at the table but at the same time can fool the crap out of you and take your money. Luck has no respectable person!!!

Good Luck

 

[Traggy]

Just move up, see how it goes. Makes sure you have a strong three bet game along with the ability to fold. Everyone set mines, no matter what the raise size is usually, and will call with ducks even to a three bet hoping to set up. Be prepared to lose sometimes and make sure the bankroll can handle 10 buy in swings that WILL happen. I have played almost 300,000 hands at 5NL, mostly rush.

Best advice, that I still struggle with is FOLD. There are better times and your bankroll will thank you for it.

 

[absoluthamm]

Just move up, see how it goes. Makes sure you have a strong three bet game along with the ability to fold. Everyone set mines, no matter what the raise size is usually, and will call with ducks even to a three bet hoping to set up. Be prepared to lose sometimes and make sure the bankroll can handle 10 buy in swings that WILL happen. I have played almost 300,000 hands at 5NL, mostly rush.

Best advice, that I still struggle with is FOLD. There are better times and your bankroll will thank you for it.

Rush changes it all up because there are literally some players that will fold every hand until they get a pp or AK/AQ, and that is their entire range, and they won't let go of them preflop. The majority of players aren't playing that same style in a regular game, they are just playing damn near every hand.

 

[WVHillbilly]

You know what the greatest thing about this thread is? The fact that you same guys are going to be the ones telling the next group 6 months from now that there is no difference between 2nl and 5nl. At the same time you'll be starting threads about the huge difference between 10nl and 25nl.

It is the never ending cycle. I hope to be bitching about how rigged 200nl is soon enough.

 

[fx20736]

The question I think you should ask yourself is...

I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

 

[pokerman27]

You know what the greatest thing about this thread is? The fact that you same guys are going to be the ones telling the next group 18 months from now that there is no difference between 2nl and 5nl. At the same time you'll be starting threads about the huge difference between 10nl and 25nl.

It is the never ending cycle. I hope to be bitching about how rigged 200nl is soon enough.

FYP

 

[LuckyChippy]

I don't think there's a difference in players personally, even though I win at a decent clip at 2nl but lose at 5nl lol.

The reason people find it difficult is because it's the first time a person moves up. It's new and comes with a load of new things a player hasn't had to deal with before.

The stakes are 2.5x bigger and as I'm sure everyone knows, 2nl/5nl players are not the best mentally and in terms of self control when it comes to downswings, tilt control and not thinking about the money. They over adjust, they play worse than they did at 2nl and when they are forced to move back down to rebuild it creates a mental block. They have never successfully moved up and it becomes this whole thing in their minds. it all adds up to screwing people over.

But it's the player screwing himself up.

 

[LuckyChippy]

You know what the greatest thing about this thread is? The fact that you same guys are going to be the ones telling the next group 6 months from now that there is no difference between 2nl and 5nl. At the same time you'll be starting threads about the huge difference between 10nl and 25nl.

It is the never ending cycle. I hope to be bitching about how rigged 200nl is soon enough.

:heart:

I've actually noticed this cycle in the short time I've been here. It happens in waves, I just seem to be falling behind with my contemporaries haha.

 

[BelgoSuisse]

And if you only move up when you are "destroying" you will never reach up very far unless you are top 3%

Quoting this as it's the best advice in the thread. You should move up as soon as your BR allows. At least until the money becomes significant and enjoying the income that your winrate gives you becomes a valid option instead of moving up.

You will learn a lot more by struggling somewhat at a higher level than by trying hard to crush a lower level. And the more you learn the more money you make in the long term.

 

[LuckyChippy]

Quoting this as it's the best advice in the thread. You should move up as soon as your BR allows. At least until the money becomes significant and enjoying the income that your winrate gives you becomes a valid option instead of moving up.

You will learn a lot more by struggling somewhat at a higher level than by trying hard to crush a lower level. And the more you learn the more money you make in the long term.

+1, take maney.

 

[fx20736]

I would agree that there is no real difference in skill level between 2nl regs and 5nl regs. I think the difference is there are a few less calling stations and a few less maniacs at 5nl, not that they don't exist only that they are not as prevalent.

As a result 2nl is pretty easy to beat because even when you stack off light or make other big mistakes you can make it up easily as you can get paid off on 3 streets frequently with most of your decent hands. It's a little harder to get 3 streets of value with a single pair at 5nl so if you overplay overpairs and top pairs expecting villains to routinely stack off with Ace/ no kicker it just isn't going to happen so when you lose a BI it is harder to win it back.

Having played 200k+ hands at 2nl and now ~ 50k at 5nl I would say that if I could only give one piece of advice to a player just moving up it would be to read the Beluga Theorem. At this level Turn bets are almost never bluffs and it is the players that cannot release single pairs to aggression on the turn that stand to crash and burn.