Micro FR Study Group

[Jurn8]

i rarely donk flops, sometimes ill c/c donk turn if high cbet/low turn cbet player steals and im in blinds. I dont really have time atm to contribute due to deadline tomorrow but ill look at some stuff then

more content
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78/micro-stakes-full-ring/cotw-donk-betting-970282/

 

[Jagsti]

Ok guys I need some urgent help on this.

What are your bb/100 winrates from the sb and bb?

FR and 6max please.

I think Im bleeding so much money from these positions that I need to compare with you guys.

HEM plugging leaks articles says something like -11bb/100 from sb, and -18bb/100 from bb, this is for 6max.

 

[imwatcher]

my BB is -31.8 but my sb is -1.9 lol, this is over about 38k hands at both 2nl and 5nl, 6max

 

[wrung24]

for 6max :

-31.90 from the SB (problematic my vpip here is higher than CO and not far behind BTN)
-19.16 from the BB

What about yours ?

 

[JOEBOB69]

sb -22 bb-27 looks like i'm bleeding chips my self thats from 6max obv.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Ok guys I need some urgent help on this.

What are your bb/100 winrates from the sb and bb?

FR and 6max please.

I think Im bleeding so much money from these positions that I need to compare with you guys.

HEM plugging leaks articles says something like -11bb/100 from sb, and -18bb/100 from bb, this is for 6max.

My FR numbers are -22bb/100 (SB) and 43bb/100 (BB). Those are a little high for FR where I believe 20/40 are average for a winning player (according to mpethybridge).

 

[fx20736]

My FR numbers are -22bb/100 (SB) and 43bb/100 (BB). Those are a little high for FR where I believe 20/40 are average for a winning player (according to mpethybridge).

over the last 123,657 hands:

SB: -7.83BB/100 (-15.66bb/100)
BB: - 21.93 BB/100 (-43.86bb/100)

 

[Lofwyr]

My numbers are irrelevant at this time due to sample size (actually winning from BB right now and ~-4BB/100 SB) but I'm pretty sure I'm leaking from SB. Much like wrung my VPIP from SB is higher than my CO VPIP. 35% from SB vs. 25% from CO.

All this is 6max ldo.

Perhaps comparisons of other stats would be helpful for blind play? Like I'd think 3bet% is quite relevant to how much you win/lose from the blinds. I'm around 12% from in each which doesn't seem to be too leaky as most of them are vs. BTN opens and whatnot.

 

[LuckyChippy]

According to mpethybridge's COTW on red lines he says:

Most players have positional win rates that look something like this:

SB: -20bb/100
BB: -40bb/100
EP: 8bb/100
MP: 12bb/100
CO: 20bb/100
BTN: 26bb/100

I think he knows best

 

[nabmom]

According to mpethybridge's COTW on red lines...

Sorry if this has been covered already (I'm not able to read every post): This is Full Ring, correct? Is there an equivalent for 6-max?

 

[LuckyChippy]

Sorry if this has been covered already (I'm not able to read every post): This is Full Ring, correct? Is there an equivalent for 6-max?

I'm not sure tbh, he just says the average player.

 

[Jagsti]

I think mpethy stuff is mainly fr afaik, not sure though.

Plus I must play the sb like a fking spewmonkey on crystal meth. -30bb/100 fml.

 

[WVHillbilly]

Yeah the numbers LC posted are FR numbers.

 

[LuckyChippy]

I think 6max losses are lower in the blinds? Have to be as the blinds come round more often. I could be wrong there though.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Only got 16k hands at 10nl 6max, but my stats are 0.55 - SB -48.48 - BB

 

[Lofwyr]

I think 6max losses are lower in the blinds? Have to be as the blinds come round more often. I could be wrong there though.

Should be higher as you're in the blinds more/100 hands in 6max than at FR. Or maybe it'll be more polarized: regs/good players have better averages while bad players have worse as compared to FR?

 

[nabmom]

With a progression from 2NL FR to 2NL 6Max to 5NL for 6max (I just moved up so only about 7800 hands in total--baby numbers, I know).

So far my stats are
BB: -34.3 BB/100
SB: -5.1 BB/100


For comparison, at 2NL FR, I had about 12.5K hands and my stats for about 4 months of play were

BB: -10.2 BB/100
SB: + 3.6 (!) BB/100

 

[Jagsti]

With a progression from 2NL FR to 2NL 6Max to 5NL for 6max (I just moved up so only about 7800 hands in total--baby numbers, I know).

So far my stats are
BB: -34.3 BB/100
SB: -5.1 BB/100


For comparison, at 2NL FR, I had about 12.5K hands and my stats for about 4 months of play were

BB: -10.2 BB/100
SB: + 3.6 (!) BB/100

Well done debs, I suspect it mat be a small sample, if its not then its double well done.

 

[LastTrader]

SB is my biggest losing position, CO BU and BB are big winners......

 

[Jagsti]

OK, heres an excerpt from Mpethy red line cotw:

Most players have positional win rates that look something like this:

SB: -20bb/100
BB: -40bb/100
EP: 8bb/100
MP: 12bb/100
CO: 20bb/100
BTN: 26bb/100

Which yields a win rate per orbit of

SB: -.2
BB: -.4
EP: .08
EP: .08
MP1: .12
MP2: .12
MP3: .12
CO: .2
BTN: .26

.38big blinds per orbit or 4.18 bb/100 hands, or 2.09 ptbb/100.

So then, after reading his thread, improving our blind play only marginally can have quite an affect on winrate. Im convinced I call/3bet too much from these positions and folding more will be more beneficial.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Is that the same redline cotw that talks about differences between flop cbet and turn cbet %'s?

I remember reading one about that and want to read it again.

 

[Jagsti]

Yeah it is dude.

 

[Jagsti]

So looking at it If I played the sb better (or ran at -20bb/100) then Im looking at saving myself over $2.5k this year alone. Need to do some work on this!

 

[LuckyChippy]

So looking at it If I played the sb better (or ran at -20bb/100) then Im looking at saving myself over $2.5k this year alone. Need to do some work on this!

I've always said that poker is all about how you play the blinds and how effectively you use the button to steal and make profitable situations more profitable. That is all poker is about. You need to make as many hands as you can at least neutral EV in the blinds (meaning you make more money than just folding the hand). Then you need to balance out your blind losses (from folding) by stealing effectively.

 

[fx20736]

I've always said that poker is all about how you play the blinds and how effectively you use the button to steal and make profitable situations more profitable. That is all poker is about. You need to make as many hands as you can at least neutral EV in the blinds (meaning you make more money than just folding the hand). Then you need to balance out your blind losses (from folding) by stealing effectively.

well said