B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
to clarify, if you are ever left in a position where you flop top 2 and have to fold somewhere getting like 4-1 then you should consider that you frakked up big time somewhere.
it's live poker and you will get called by AQ/KQ/KJ/KT/A6/J9/T2.
also probably just 3-bet half the raiser's stack pre.
it's live poker and you will get called by AQ/KQ/KJ/KT/A6/J9/T2.
also probably just 3-bet half the raiser's stack pre.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Yeah I frakked up... But on the turn, or arguably preflop, not the flop.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Got a spot here.
Blinds are $1/$2, I'm UTG with
, and I open to $10. MP and BB call. (BB is the same player as UTG+2 from the previous hand, and I'm making these posts in chronological order, so assume knowledge of the last hand for this one.)
Flop (~$30)
BB donks out for $20. I call, and MP calls. I just called because I felt like I didn't want to raise out BB's Tx hands, but in retrospect I think I basically have to raise it to like $50 or $60 here??
Turn (~$90)
BB leads again, this time for $45. At this point I think I can find a fold. He's showed a lot of strength by leading into two players OOP, not as the aggressor, on the flop. To do it again on the turn shows WAY more strength, especially as an overcard comes. At this point, I do call, but in retrospect I think he only has T8, QT, MAYBE Qx with spades, and sets. But I do call, and so does MP.
River (~$225)
BB shoves for $80, and I tank fold.
MP ended up folding KTss face up. People were asking what I took so long to fold, and I said pocket aces. BB seemed shocked and/or angry that I had folded that.
Blinds are $1/$2, I'm UTG with
, and I open to $10. MP and BB call. (BB is the same player as UTG+2 from the previous hand, and I'm making these posts in chronological order, so assume knowledge of the last hand for this one.)Flop (~$30)
BB donks out for $20. I call, and MP calls. I just called because I felt like I didn't want to raise out BB's Tx hands, but in retrospect I think I basically have to raise it to like $50 or $60 here??
Turn (~$90)
BB leads again, this time for $45. At this point I think I can find a fold. He's showed a lot of strength by leading into two players OOP, not as the aggressor, on the flop. To do it again on the turn shows WAY more strength, especially as an overcard comes. At this point, I do call, but in retrospect I think he only has T8, QT, MAYBE Qx with spades, and sets. But I do call, and so does MP.
River (~$225)
BB shoves for $80, and I tank fold.
MP ended up folding KTss face up. People were asking what I took so long to fold, and I said pocket aces. BB seemed shocked and/or angry that I had folded that.
pocketehs
Legend
Silver Level
Got a spot here.
Blinds are $1/$2, I'm UTG with
Flop (~$30)
BB donks out for $20. I call, and MP calls. I just called because I felt like I didn't want to raise out BB's Tx hands, but in retrospect I think I basically have to raise it to like $50 or $60 here??
Turn (~$90)
BB leads again, this time for $45. At this point I think I can find a fold. He's showed a lot of strength by leading into two players OOP, not as the aggressor, on the flop. To do it again on the turn shows WAY more strength, especially as an overcard comes. At this point, I do call, but in retrospect I think he only has T8, QT, MAYBE Qx with spades, and sets. But I do call, and so does MP.
River (~$225)
BB shoves for $80, and I tank fold.
MP ended up folding KTss face up. People were asking what I took so long to fold, and I said pocket aces. BB seemed shocked and/or angry that I had folded that.
Didnt really see the last hand but ya im def raising the flop. Whats everyones stack size?
can we get cliffs on the BB?
unless this guy is really good i kind of want to try to GII on the turn..
JOEBOB69
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Raise turnGot a spot here.
Blinds are $1/$2, I'm UTG with
Flop (~$30)
BB donks out for $20. I call, and MP calls. I just called because I felt like I didn't want to raise out BB's Tx hands, but in retrospect I think I basically have to raise it to like $50 or $60 here??
Turn (~$90)
BB leads again, this time for $45. At this point I think I can find a fold. He's showed a lot of strength by leading into two players OOP, not as the aggressor, on the flop. To do it again on the turn shows WAY more strength, especially as an overcard comes. At this point, I do call, but in retrospect I think he only has T8, QT, MAYBE Qx with spades, and sets. But I do call, and so does MP.
River (~$225)
BB shoves for $80, and I tank fold.
Edit: what diggs said
MP ended up folding KTss face up. People were asking what I took so long to fold, and I said pocket aces. BB seemed shocked and/or angry that I had folded that.
Edit :what diggs said
Last edited:
B
baudib1
Legend
Silver Level
Why does everyone want to raise the turn all the time> Raising the turn is terrible like 90% of the time when people want to do it.
Don't any of you ever want to bluff rivers?
Even reading previous hand, I don't get enough info to tell you what to do here. Are you suggesting he never donks and barrels off with a spade draw or a 1-pair hand? KQss/AQss/QJss feel like the nuts on the river if I'm BB.
We're getting 4-1 with a huge overpair; only draw that got there is J9. QT got there. Having flatted and seriously underrepped our hand, which I'm fine with, I find it hard to fold. If we can give him 2 combos of KK, this is pretty much a call.
Don't any of you ever want to bluff rivers?
Even reading previous hand, I don't get enough info to tell you what to do here. Are you suggesting he never donks and barrels off with a spade draw or a 1-pair hand? KQss/AQss/QJss feel like the nuts on the river if I'm BB.
We're getting 4-1 with a huge overpair; only draw that got there is J9. QT got there. Having flatted and seriously underrepped our hand, which I'm fine with, I find it hard to fold. If we can give him 2 combos of KK, this is pretty much a call.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
I guess I feel alright about tank folding here. I really don't think he can barrel off missed draws 3way here. Also, he bets $80 into $225, so actually it's less than 3:1. So the way I'm kind of seeing it is:
Things I beat:
KQss/AQss/QJss = 3 combos
Things I lose to:
QTs/T8s/J9s/TT/88/55 = 18 combos
If that's close to right ^ then I can't call. I just can't really put anything else in his range that I beat I don't think.
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
This guy has so many flush draws in his range imo. This feels like the typical 1/2 lolfish blocker bet with draws.
I think raise flop is the correct play. I'm not so sure about raising the turn though, I don't see what were exactly getting value from by raising? I don't think 10x comes along to a raise.
I think raise flop is the correct play. I'm not so sure about raising the turn though, I don't see what were exactly getting value from by raising? I don't think 10x comes along to a raise.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Agreed on raise flop. But as played, there's just no way he goes for a 3rd barrel with missed flush draws. Qxss are the only spade hands that bet a third time. He can't think anyone is folding 3way when we've called 2 streets already, right?
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
Idk, I mean he did only bet 80, it looks so so so so so weak in this spot. I guess I fold? but I probably hate myself for doing it
xdeucesx
Bar Master
Silver Level
ah my bad i didnt notice that
Still, ugh just sucks. I guess I can see a fold on river? but just feels bad since river didn't change anything. Raise Flop so we don't have these problems
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Yeah pretty much raise flop, plan to GII cause he can have draws. Sigh.
But!! I've told a lot of people who follow this thread already, but for those who I haven't updated:
I've officially broken off the terrible streak of losses. I was on a 5-session losing streak and something like 8 out of my last 9 sessions had been losses. My downswing was nearly 11 BIs over a span of about 20 sessions.
I played 2 weekends ago and booked a $15 win. Not much, but anything was better than a loss. (That's the session those last 2 hands came from.) Then last weekend I played 3 sessions. Thursday night I went on a heater and booked a +4 BI night. I played well, but I was getting paid off like mad, I coolered a few people, and I also sucked out twice in a sizable pots. The next night I went back and went -1.5 BIs. There wasn't too much to be said about it. Mostly just ran meh, running into tops of ranges type spots. Played pretty solid for the most part but did spew a bit preflop. Then the next night I played again and went +0.8 BIs. I spewed more than a should have against fish in a couple spots, but was playing quite solid against regs. My high point of the session was +1.3 BIs, so I was a little annoyed about my spew at the time, but overall I played solid and was happy with the night.
So the current state of my downswing is -7 BIs over roughly 25 sessions - I'm down a little under 5 BIs lifetime. I'm consistently improving and feeling very strongly that I can beat this game. I'm learning more and more to trust my reads, which is an aspect of the game that didn't exist in such a large capacity for me online in the past. Hoping to play a session tonight and perhaps get a couple in this weekend, but it will partly depend on school stuff.
I'm also getting back into thinking about the mental game more, so hopefully I can continue to make progress in that aspect of the game.
But!! I've told a lot of people who follow this thread already, but for those who I haven't updated:
I've officially broken off the terrible streak of losses. I was on a 5-session losing streak and something like 8 out of my last 9 sessions had been losses. My downswing was nearly 11 BIs over a span of about 20 sessions.
I played 2 weekends ago and booked a $15 win. Not much, but anything was better than a loss. (That's the session those last 2 hands came from.) Then last weekend I played 3 sessions. Thursday night I went on a heater and booked a +4 BI night. I played well, but I was getting paid off like mad, I coolered a few people, and I also sucked out twice in a sizable pots. The next night I went back and went -1.5 BIs. There wasn't too much to be said about it. Mostly just ran meh, running into tops of ranges type spots. Played pretty solid for the most part but did spew a bit preflop. Then the next night I played again and went +0.8 BIs. I spewed more than a should have against fish in a couple spots, but was playing quite solid against regs. My high point of the session was +1.3 BIs, so I was a little annoyed about my spew at the time, but overall I played solid and was happy with the night.
So the current state of my downswing is -7 BIs over roughly 25 sessions - I'm down a little under 5 BIs lifetime. I'm consistently improving and feeling very strongly that I can beat this game. I'm learning more and more to trust my reads, which is an aspect of the game that didn't exist in such a large capacity for me online in the past. Hoping to play a session tonight and perhaps get a couple in this weekend, but it will partly depend on school stuff.
I'm also getting back into thinking about the mental game more, so hopefully I can continue to make progress in that aspect of the game.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Played a free tournament that was run at my school last night. Roughly 45 runners, I took second. Incredibly frustrating because we started with < 35 bb, and top prize was a Kindle Fire, while every other prize was nearly worthless. I came in 2nd, but the total value of my prizes (basically assorted junk tbh) was approximately $20. Annoying, to say the least.
Hoping to get out to grind live tonight, but it'll depend on how I get on with HW today and also on whether I run deep in any tourneys today, since there are a couple I want to play online.
Hoping to get out to grind live tonight, but it'll depend on how I get on with HW today and also on whether I run deep in any tourneys today, since there are a couple I want to play online.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Well I've had another couple bad sessions. -1.5 BIs in each of my last 2 sessions.
A couple frustrating spots came up in the session I just finished. Both are at 1/2 at the same table
Hand 1.
2 limpers and I have in the HJ and flat. Two more limpers behind me, SB completes and BB checks.
Flop ($14)
It checks around to me and I bet $12 and UTG+1 calls.
Turn ($38)
UTG+1 checks, and I bet again, $35 this time. He calls again.
River ($108)
UTG+1 leads out for $100. He is staring me down hard, but I didn't have any reads on what that meant. I'd only been at the table for about 45 minutes, and had no reads on this player at all. I ask "will you show me if I fold?" At first he doesn't respond, then he says "maybe" and sort of relaxes back into his seat after he had been leaning forward staring at me. Then, unprompted he says "you've seen how many hands I show. I always show if you call and I win." He sounds and looks comfortable. I don't know if he picked up his gutshot on the turn or if he really got to the river with a three or somehow backdoored a flush, but none of it seemed super likely. But I couldn't really put him on any kind of bluff, and every hand he bets on the river here for value beats me. I eventually fold.
Hand 2.
Two limpers and I make it $15 with from MP1 and get 2 callers, one in MP2 and the other in the SB.
Flop ($51)
It checks to me and I lead out for $35. MP2 quickly calls, and the other caller folds, so we go heads up to the turn, with me out of position.
Turn ($120)
I have $160 or $170 behind, and I bet $55. MP2 doesn't snap shove, but he doesn't take long to say "all in" and then push some of his chips forward. So the pot is now ~ $400 and I'd have to call about $160 or so to continue in the hand. Flush draws just came in, and the board has paired. I'm facing an almost complete unknown in an enormous pot with just an over pair. I hem and haw a while and then fold, face up (I know this is bad, but I couldn't help it because I was pretty frustrated especially coming soon after Hand 1). After much prompting, MP2 shows his hand:
A couple frustrating spots came up in the session I just finished. Both are at 1/2 at the same table
Hand 1.
2 limpers and I have
in the HJ and flat. Two more limpers behind me, SB completes and BB checks.Flop ($14)
It checks around to me and I bet $12 and UTG+1 calls.
Turn ($38)
UTG+1 checks, and I bet again, $35 this time. He calls again.
River ($108)
UTG+1 leads out for $100. He is staring me down hard, but I didn't have any reads on what that meant. I'd only been at the table for about 45 minutes, and had no reads on this player at all. I ask "will you show me if I fold?" At first he doesn't respond, then he says "maybe" and sort of relaxes back into his seat after he had been leaning forward staring at me. Then, unprompted he says "you've seen how many hands I show. I always show if you call and I win." He sounds and looks comfortable. I don't know if he picked up his gutshot on the turn or if he really got to the river with a three or somehow backdoored a flush, but none of it seemed super likely. But I couldn't really put him on any kind of bluff, and every hand he bets on the river here for value beats me. I eventually fold.
Hand 2.
Two limpers and I make it $15 with
from MP1 and get 2 callers, one in MP2 and the other in the SB.Flop ($51)
It checks to me and I lead out for $35. MP2 quickly calls, and the other caller folds, so we go heads up to the turn, with me out of position.
Turn ($120)
I have $160 or $170 behind, and I bet $55. MP2 doesn't snap shove, but he doesn't take long to say "all in" and then push some of his chips forward. So the pot is now ~ $400 and I'd have to call about $160 or so to continue in the hand. Flush draws just came in, and the board has paired. I'm facing an almost complete unknown in an enormous pot with just an over pair. I hem and haw a while and then fold, face up (I know this is bad, but I couldn't help it because I was pretty frustrated especially coming soon after Hand 1). After much prompting, MP2 shows his hand:
MP2 very slowly decides to show his hand. He shows for top pair and the NFD. I was displeased, to say the least.
for top pair and the NFD. I was displeased, to say the least.
Aleksei
Legend
Silver Level
Holding AA in a board like that is insanely dangerous. Hell, holding AA on almost any postflop street vs anyone but lagfish and call stations is dangerous. You generally wanna get as much money in and end the hand as quickly as possible with a holding like that, because the longer you hold it the better chance speculative hands have to crush it.Got a spot here.
Blinds are $1/$2, I'm UTG with
Flop (~$30)
BB donks out for $20. I call, and MP calls. I just called because I felt like I didn't want to raise out BB's Tx hands, but in retrospect I think I basically have to raise it to like $50 or $60 here??
Turn (~$90)
BB leads again, this time for $45. At this point I think I can find a fold. He's showed a lot of strength by leading into two players OOP, not as the aggressor, on the flop. To do it again on the turn shows WAY more strength, especially as an overcard comes. At this point, I do call, but in retrospect I think he only has T8, QT, MAYBE Qx with spades, and sets. But I do call, and so does MP.
River (~$225)
BB shoves for $80, and I tank fold.
MP ended up folding KTss face up. People were asking what I took so long to fold, and I said pocket aces. BB seemed shocked and/or angry that I had folded that.
So, raise flop. Definitely.
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
Maybe you could comment on the hands from today instead of from almost 2 weeks ago?
It was agreed all around that raising flop was best I believe.