Limit Hold em: Slowplay?

t1riel

t1riel

Legend
I recently read an article by Daniel Negreanu dealing with Limit Hold em and how you should play as far as stragedy. Basically, the article is stating that slow playing Limit Hold em is sometimes a big mistake. It's designed for fast-paced game with lost of action.

However, this is a time when you should slow play. Whne you have the nut hand and you don't want to scare other players away from betting. Otherwise, be aggressive.

Limit Hold em requires you to play with more creativity and finesse as well as using trapping tactics. However, you do might want to slow play every now and then to be unpredictable.

If you decide to slowplay, the atricle offers these tips:

• Find the right opponent — The best type of opponent to slow play against is the one who is aggressive and bluffs often. The player who will see your check as a sign of weakness and will look to take the pot away from you is a great target. Don't slow play against a timid player.

• Have a monster hand — You must hold a very strong hand. One pair, even if it's aces or kings, is still a marginal hand after the flop is dealt. Slow play a hand like that and you'll often find that you're only trapping yourself into losing a monster pot.

• Have a plan — Always think about how to maximize your profit in the hand. So, depending on the table action, don't count out fast playing a pair of aces on the flop. In the right situation, fast play might garner even more action.

• Avoid predictability — If you always slow play with monster hands, opponents will quickly notice. Be aware of the fact that you must mix it up.

The article gives you a key thing to remember. "Never underestimate how perceptive your opponents are. They're always trying to figure you out, so don't make it easy on them."

What do you think?
 
Kenzie 96

Kenzie 96

Legend
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Every now and then if I stay at a low limit table for an extended period of time I will see someone slowplay a hand. I don't play above $1/$2 myself and at higher limits this probably is an effective tool. At the lower limits I believe all one accomplishes is to impress themselves and cost themselves money. My problem is that after playing for awhile I have to remind myself that Q5o is NOT a good hand in early,middle, or late position. lol
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

Legend
Nice thread
As far as limit goes, i don't play much but most of what i've read and heard is that aggression is your biggest and best tool in LHE
Like your points suggest, slowplay should only be used in the right situations or against the right players

t1riel said:
• Have a monster hand — You must hold a very strong hand. One pair, even if it's aces or kings, is still a marginal hand after the flop is dealt. Slow play a hand like that and you'll often find that you're only trapping yourself into losing a monster pot.

This is true, but i'd still like to open bet with the monsters, otherwise how else could you get money in the pot?
If you check-raise, you're revealing the strength of your hand and that will probably be more of a scare to him/her than betting right out
You could wait for him to improve his hand, but he might not. I prefer taking a gamble on whether or not hes got something and opening the bet
When you're opponents see you constantly raising and reraising with hands, they see you as an aggressive player; then When you've got the real monster hand, they might put you on something lesser, or even a bluff
From what i've learned, you're supposed to get the most money in the pot when you've got (or think you've got) the best hand

-ChuckTs
 
quazar66

quazar66

Guest
slowplay

I only play limit. I beleive that in the lower levels if you slowplay it only hurts you because of the stupid callers. You have to flush them out with a raise or youll get hurt. Even if you just hit top pair its better to raise at least half of the time because if you dont someone will get two pair with his bottom pair and the nextcard.
 
S

Styrofoam

Visionary
slowplaying in low limit is bad...because it often can give free cards to longshot draws like gutshots and back door flushes and straight... not to mention to improve someone to a higher two pair or counterfeit your own. In no limit holdem, and even in higher limits its more effective because hte people playing are generally of a higher grade than those that play .02/.04 through 1/2 limit - and quite honestly, i see those players slow play their "big hands" like two pair 8855X when someone hits top pair...and wonder why they checked rather than bet on out w/ it. In these low limits, you're almost guaranteed to have osmeone call down the river with you - so why not bet for value. If they draw out, they'd have drawn out anyways...its not a winning play - you lose money on average by checking the flop and then raising the turn.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
I slowplay on average maybe one hand out of a thousand. In order for me to slowplay a hand the following things need to be true:

1) I'm holding a monster
2) The pot must be (very) small
3) Another card (which I'm risking to give for free) is likely to improve someone else's hand, but unlikely to improve them beyond my own strength
4) A bet is likely to make everyone fold

At lower limits, don't bother slowplaying. People overdo it so much that most of the times when you bet your hand, they don't give you credit for it anyway - "Yeah, right! If you had the trips, you would have CHECKED! I raise!"

I think I might be overestimating how often I slowplay, actually. Maybe more like one hand out of 5000. If even that.
 
S

Styrofoam

Visionary
At lower limits, don't bother slowplaying. People overdo it so much that most of the times when you bet your hand, they don't give you credit for it anyway - "Yeah, right! If you had the trips, you would have CHECKED! I raise!"



This is so true, its FUNNY. The problem with slowplaying is really twofold - the only time I EVER slow play is with the absolute nuts (say a rainbow flop of AKQ and i hold 10/j) or something similar...but even then i rarely slowplay. You risk giving a draw to someone - and you almost always lose out on callers. Low limit people call almost everything with the weakest draws/hands. I've been called after 3 betting the flop to the river with bottom pair!!
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Styrofoam said:
the only time I EVER slow play is with the absolute nuts (say a rainbow flop of AKQ and i hold 10/j) or something similar

I know you continued to say that even then you rarely slowplay, but I want to point out that in this specific example, you should NEVER slowplay. If the pot is multiway, SOMEONE very likely has at least a high pair, maybe even two pair, maybe even a set! And lots of people are willing to chase gutshot straights. Bet, raise and re-raise - they will call.

Here are flops I'd consider slowplaying if it's heads-up or three-way:

AAK - and I'm holding AK.
AAA - and I'm holding AK.

Flops I'd never once in a million years slowplay:
AK9 - and I'm holding AA
AK9 - and I'm holding AK
K92 - and I'm holding 99 (why slowplay? People love to call, and you'll get action from a king)

etc.

You get the idea. Pay very close attention to the board when you think you should slowplay - if there's a draw out there that can beat you, strongly consider betting. If the pot is multiway (4 or more), consider betting. If the pot is big, don't even consider it - just bet.

If there's absolutely nothing your opponent can hold that makes it even remotely interesting for him to call a bet on the flop, then maybe you check.
 
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