Lesson unlearned

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Gorblimey

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One thing I hate learning is a lesson!
Effective stack $9K. Full table $5-$10 NLH. Hero in CO raises to $60 with AQ after one middle limper. Only BB calls. Great so far. Flop is A 7 5 rainbow. BB checks and check. Turn is a 4. BB bets $80 and Hero raises to $240. Villain calls. River is a K. Villain shoves for all the chips-effective $40K. Now what? Snap call or snap fold?
 
dbchristy

dbchristy

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One thing I hate learning is a lesson!
Effective stack $9K. Full table $5-$10 NLH. Hero in CO raises to $60 with AQ after one middle limper. Only BB calls. Great so far. Flop is A 7 5 rainbow. BB checks and check. Turn is a 4. BB bets $80 and Hero raises to $240. Villain calls. River is a K. Villain shoves for all the chips-effective $40K. Now what? Snap call or snap fold?
I wish I could call a game/hand like that. All the lingo I mean. Been playing 15 years, and its hard to describe what happened like that:)
 
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derpaderp

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What was your read on villain? Nitty or laggy? I guess the line could maybe make sense for value if villain's slow playing [KK+, AK], but with those hole cards I'd venture most people would be 3-betting pre-flop unless villain was a nit. Hard to imagine having air calling your turn bet and then shoving the river. Could have been [77, TT, JJ, A5s] with a set or two pair most likely, but definitely some SDV unless villain was totally drunk or aggro. I probably would have folded. $9k call into such a small pot without the nuts is super low equity. Do you have the winning hand 49%+ of the time?
 
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fundiver199

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This hand seem absurdly deep, and then you can not stack off without the nuts. AQ is not the nuts, so you have to fold.
 
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Gorblimey

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I had to see that he showedown with K7! Bummer.
 
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Gorblimey

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This player was raising and raising with nothing all night. I had to go for it.
 
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fundiver199

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This player was raising and raising with nothing all night. I had to go for it.


When you pay off in such a massive way with top pair, it is actually profitable for him to play any two cards against you, especially when you are this deep. Also you say, he was raising and raising all night with nothing. Ok but did he raise 15 times the pot and then get caught? Or was it perhaps some more normal size?

It does not matter, if someone is bluffing you, when he risk 9.000 to pick up a pot of just 600. If its a bluff, then good for him. Its not going to be profitable for him in the long run, because once in a while, someone will have the nuts, and then he gets absolutely boned.
 
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eetenor

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When you pay off in such a massive way with top pair, it is actually profitable for him to play any two cards against you, especially when you are this deep. Also you say, he was raising and raising all night with nothing. Ok but did he raise 15 times the pot and then get caught? Or was it perhaps some more normal size?

It does not matter, if someone is bluffing you, when he risk 9.000 to pick up a pot of just 600. If its a bluff, then good for him. Its not going to be profitable for him in the long run, because once in a while, someone will have the nuts, and then he gets absolutely boned.


Thank U 4 Posting.

fundriver as usual is spot on with this thought approach.

The skill in poker is not in winning one hand.
We want this villain to win this pot with a bluff vs us.
Why, because of the reasons fundriver stated.

NL is not about winning hands. It is about winning stacks. The only way this V wins our stack is to get lucky or we play emotionally. Both happened here.

You have some tilt issues as expressed by your description of villain's agg and your need to see the hand.
Jared Tendler has some books for this "The Mental Game of Poker" Vol 1-2

These books will help you greatly and they cost less than 5 BB in your game.
5 BB to save 9K.

No I do not benefit from your purchase but you will.

Hope this helps
:):)
 
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Gorblimey

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Well, the bad news is I have some serious runaway tilt issues. No debate there. The good news is that it was against computer bots-so I lost nothing. But anyway, the schooling is priceless to say the least. Not only for myself but all the onlookers as well. Cheers from the abyss!
 
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Jack Reacher

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Snap fold definitely.Hero already made the mistake and it is time to pay for it,only question is how much it is highly unlikely that someone will go all in with just a simple pair or bluff in that situation.Good player will bluff only 5% of the time and fish will bluff always.
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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One thing I hate learning is a lesson!
Effective stack $9K. Full table $5-$10 NLH. Hero in CO raises to $60 with AQ after one middle limper. Only BB calls. Great so far. Flop is A 7 5 rainbow. BB checks and check. Turn is a 4. BB bets $80 and Hero raises to $240. Villain calls. River is a K. Villain shoves for all the chips-effective $40K. Now what? Snap call or snap fold?


If those are my 2 choices I would snap fld.

It's pretty rare that one pair (even top pair top kicker) is going to be the best hand when you're facing a river bet of over 100 big blinds.

Even moreso, it's rare that people check-raise the turn and barrel the river with worse.

Top pair top kicker is a fine hand to call down modest sized bets, but when facing an overbet in a spot where someone put in 15-20x the pot and all you have is one pair? Unless the player is a known maniac there's no way I'd ever call (and even if they are a maniac it's often not worth it).




The amount you're risking is so high relative to what you can win.

Ask yourself 'what is the worst hand my opponent would take this betting line with'
And ask yourself if AQ can beat that? (and that's your BEST case)
 
Evan Jarvis

Evan Jarvis

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Well, the bad news is I have some serious runaway tilt issues. No debate there. The good news is that it was against computer bots-so I lost nothing. But anyway, the schooling is priceless to say the least. Not only for myself but all the onlookers as well. Cheers from the abyss!


Are you playing on advanced poker training?
They've got some great software for study for sure!
 
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