I don't know if it's a leak...

N.D.

N.D.

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It's normally a good thing. For some reason, in 1c/2c and sometimes 5c/10c people can't let go of an A or any face card. They'll let go of a 10, but somehow a J gets them all mesmerized. I don't get it. But yeah, I see weirdness that I can't wrap my brain around to save my life.

Anyway, like everyone I get JJ from time to time. Being a decent pocket pair it's one of the few starting hands I can actually remember getting in a session.

But how to play them? I'll tell you what happens and then you tell me if I'm doing it right?

Early position I limp. I generally hate them so I limp. They're good, can't bring myself to fold them outright, I need incentive. So I limp. Middle to late position I'll make a position based raise, cuz I'm too stupid to slow play.

Now I'm expecting any pocket pair higher than mine to re-raise pre-flop. If I had pocket A's or K's I wouldn't want them getting trounced by some measly little pair. I'd re-raise.

Now, realistically, this almost never happens, but when it does, it really burns my toast:

I raise, they call. Flop's a rainbowed mess. Yeah, you can draw a hand but would need crazy-luck + would have had to be holding a really ugly starting hand. The kind of hand that makes my stomach turn it's so ugly. The kind I can't wait to fold(that kind of mess).

At this point I've raised pre-flop and I'm not scared of pairs because of the # of people who go all-in with just any pair. Because I'm not scared of pre-flop pairs, I'm also not scared of trips.

Ah but no need to fear trips. Because some dirty-rotten I dunno what was slow playing his/her AA or KK. Hehehe, and they're a better player than me, and what the hell are they doing at the penny tables?

I innocently enough start a betting frenzy and get bitten hard.

Only, this doesn't happen every time. Normally the betting frenzy's good. Someone with A/8 os(and I can't bring myself to play that hand, unless it's a loosey-goosey table, I've checked my brain at the door, and I get to limp. It happens.) is raising and re-raising their top pair(hey they think it's top pair okay?). That's normally what happens. And hand to god, normally they don't suck out, and when they do I'll dust myself off and start over.

So what gives? Should I not bet my JJ? But if I don't bet them, and someone sucks out, well, don't I only have myself to blame? But then shouldn't I blame myself for not knowing when I'm being played?
 
Steveg1976

Steveg1976

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First, I would say you need to bet stronger preflop from early position to scare away the chasers, or at least make them pay for it. If someone comes back over the top you would consider folding them down. Suck outs happen, but a pair of J's is still good enough to be betting from an ealry position.
 
Melkor

Melkor

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Yeah, you must raise from early position almost all the time, doesn't let anyone in cheaply with ace rag or Q10 or whatever junk a call could which then would be dangerous on an overcard flop to your jacks. It also will point out the big hands, a re-raise can make you throw it away or whatever but it alerts you to a big hand more than a raise to your call would.

On a messy flop, if someone has not re-raised you with AA, KK or QQ, not much you can do, but usually a flat call pre-flop and then raising on three low cards on a flop would suggest 99 or something. Just be aware that your JJ could be beaten. But a raise pre-flop is imperative, in any position.
 
N.D.

N.D.

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Thanks for the help. I'm mad at UB but only because I'm an idiot. Didn't realize it doesn't save hand histories like other sites. Was gonna post some stuff that I remember went oddly and nope, couldn't.
 
Boltneck

Boltneck

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I'm pretty conservative with my PFR's, but I'm struggling to think of too many situations when I would NOT raise from any position with JJ (and probably 3 bet to an earlier raise - dependant on the OR).

Raising with JJ is essential to thin the field - you really don't want 3 or 4 bandits seeing the flop with you. If you can see a flop with only one bandit, you have the fourth best starting hand possible, so are likely to be seeing the flop as favourite to win. However, you need to be able to put it down if you get a bad flop.
 
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