How to start multi tabling sessions

[dmorris68]

Why aren't you using a HUD at Rush.

Probably because they're really hit & miss. Judging from the HEM forums, theirs only works some of the time and requires very exact table sizes. Yet some claim it's way better than PT3's.

A couple of people claim to have written a better Rush HUD that works with HEM, but it seems a little suspect to me.

Not that I care that much, I had enough of Rush when it first started and swore it off.

 

[Wes747]

Why aren't you using a HUD at Rush.

I downloaded the new HUD thing for HEM and couldn't get it to work properly. Does it work like its supposed to on PT3? (I think thats what you use?)

 

[WVHillbilly]

I downloaded the new HUD thing for HEM and couldn't get it to work properly. Does it work like its supposed to on PT3? (I think thats what you use?)

I've only used it a couple times tbh, but it worked fine for me. Occasionally I'd have to wait a few seconds for the HUD to catch up but it never caused me to time out or anything. I was only playing 2 Rush tables though. I think people playing 4+ Rush tables say it's too slow to be useful but I haven't tried it.

 

[slycbnew]

Why aren't you using a HUD at Rush.

I've been reluctant to use HEM's current HUD for rush, which I understand overwrites notes on players. I'm not playing rush anything like my normal game, so anyone taking notes on my rush play is in for a surprise if they play me on a standard table, and vice versa. I'm assuming other players are also not playing their normal game.

The other reason was simply cuz I only played rush to clear the bonus, and played 5nl - 25nl. If I were playing 50nl or up, no question I'd start using the HUD, esp if it were 6max (which I didn't try).

 

[WVHillbilly]

No they have an actual HUD out now. Only the 1st work around for HEM over wrote the notes file. Go get the beta and at least try it.

 

[slycbnew]

Awesome, tks, missed that...

 

[Lofwyr]

New to the forum, first post. This is a topic I'm interested in. I want to start playing some multitable cash poker. Currently playing 2 tables and it seems fairly comfortable. I tinkered with 3 and for the most part it was ok, but some situations when i had hands going on all 3 tables were too hectic.

I have some general questions:

-can anyone direct me to some threads that discuss analyzing your own play for leaks and stuff?

-i have PT3 and got used to how the HUD looks. Is there any way to get the HUD to display the full collection of hands i have on a player? Right now the HUD seems to only show data gathered during that session.

-right now I'm only on PS. Probably will start a FT account soon, just to have options. Wondering what the pros/cons are of each site? Like rakebake, i hear PS doesn't do it? How useful is it? (any threads with an overall view on it?).

-any choice threads for low limit NLHE cash games? I saw the 10k post micro-limit thread in the golden archive already.

 

[thepokerkid123]

New to the forum, first post. This is a topic I'm interested in. I want to start playing some multitable cash poker. Currently playing 2 tables and it seems fairly comfortable. I tinkered with 3 and for the most part it was ok, but some situations when i had hands going on all 3 tables were too hectic.

I have some general questions:

-can anyone direct me to some threads that discuss analyzing your own play for leaks and stuff?

This: Guide: Analyzing your own hands

-i have PT3 and got used to how the HUD looks. Is there any way to get the HUD to display the full collection of hands i have on a player? Right now the HUD seems to only show data gathered during that session.

It shouldn't do that by default. Are your previous hands uploaded to PT3? If not, go to manual import and import them from whatever file PS saves HH's to.

-right now I'm only on PS. Probably will start a FT account soon, just to have options. Wondering what the pros/cons are of each site? Like rakebake, i hear PS doesn't do it? How useful is it? (any threads with an overall view on it?).

PS doesn't have rakeback but makes up for it with bonuses, I've never played on PS so this could be wrong but based on what I've seen on various forums you might be slightly better off on PS in the smallest stakes based on rake structure.
Make sure when you do sign up to FT that you sign up with a rakeback affiliate (delete cookies immediately before signing up too).

-any choice threads for low limit NLHE cash games? I saw the 10k post micro-limit thread in the golden archive already.
This: Ring Game Hand Analysis: Required Reading also check out the cash game hand analysis section frequently.

Responses in bold.

 

[ComplexPlaya]

I tinkered with 3 and for the most part it was ok, but some situations when i had hands going on all 3 tables were too hectic.

Are you using TILED windows? First I didn't because I thought - oh they're too small, I can't manage etc. but you get used to them fast. For me when I started playing 3 or 4 tables it was way too hectic as well, but only because of the extra click and windows going on top of each other. Tile them. You need at least a 19"" monitor, 22 would be best. Get wide monitors too.

-i have PT3 and got used to how the HUD looks. Is there any way to get the HUD to display the full collection of hands i have on a player? Right now the HUD seems to only show data gathered during that session.

For me it shows all the hands they have on the players, except my own which shows the current table data (which I prefer, for obvious reasons)

 

[Lofwyr]

Thanks for the responses. Looks like I have some reading to do...and hands to play really. Not worth analyzing just 2k hands i suppose.

The 3 tables i did were manually sized so i could see all 3 in a semi 2x2 grid. I'm actually going to start making them even smaller to get used to how it will likely look if i go to 4+. It was mostly a 'holy crap I have 3 semi-difficult decisions to make in the next 20 seconds!' type thing that messed me up.

Re: PT3. I have only been using the default database it creates automatically. I used it in the trial version for a bit before purchasing it. All the hand histories I've gathered are saved to a specific folder of mine and when i check the 'texas hold'em' tab i can find all the hands I've recorded on any given player. Just seems when i boot up the HUD it shows only for the session. Perhaps it's a HUD setting I should tweak.

Heh, seems I need to learn a good deal more just about PT3. Damn, there are mountains of information to absorb when you decide to start taking this stuff seriously

 

[dmorris68]

It was mostly a 'holy crap I have 3 semi-difficult decisions to make in the next 20 seconds!' type thing that messed me up.

Remember that the key to learning how to multi-table effectively without a major hit to your BR, especially if you're relatively new to poker in general, is to avoid those difficult decisions as much as possible. It's wise to try and avoid them when single-tabling too, but much more crucial when multi-tabling -- at a single table you have the luxury of time to think through a play. Tighten up a lot at first until you get the hang of it. It's not as boring as it sounds because the more tables you play, the more frequently you'll get good hands, and sticking to the premium holdings help avoid those nasty decision points. You won't always eliminate the possibility of several things happening at once, but playing tight will help minimize them. As you get more comfortable making snap reads on players and their ranges (here's where the HUD really helps) you can loosen up a bit and make more advanced plays.

My biggest multi-table leak, which is something I still occasionally struggle with, is trying to get too fancy. My natural playing style tends to gravitate a bit to the LAG side, and I'm always looking for spots to take a shot based on a read. This tends to get me in trouble when I'm multi-tabling and can't really give that approach the time and thought it requires for me to be successful. With some advice from a fellow CCer who sweated me on a 4-tabling session and then looked over my stats, I found that TAGing it up to somewhere around 12/10 or so while 9-tabling 50NL caused my swing to reverse directions and begin the climb back to profitability. I've had a few minor downswings along the way, but aside from variance they're usually a result of me slipping back into old habits.

 

[ComplexPlaya]

You don't have to play 6 or 9 or 16 or 32 tables at once. Just find the set you like and where you feel good. I for one don't think I ever want to move up from 4 tables, just because I want to read my opponents succesfully and move up in levels.

I'm not sure when that is, but I'm sure there is a level where multi-tabling like in the lower levels becomes impossible. For example, I don't think there are people doing 9 tables at once for the 1000NL level. Not sure, just supposing...I'd like to know myself

 

[Lofwyr]

I was thinking of that same sorta thing earlier. Well, comparing the virtues of playing fewer tables at a higher level while increasing stakes and adding more tables and reducing your overall BB/100 while seeing more hands.

I think I'll work on winning with just 2 tables for now

 

[ComplexPlaya]

I'm a big fan of multitabling, but thought I'd throw this perspective in as a fwiw.

Many players are very successful multitabling. As dmorris says, there are grinders who play 16+ tables w very good hourly rates - and if their actual winrates don't justify playing that many tables, the rakeback they make more than offsets the decreased winrate (hence the term "rakeback pro"). But there are players who massively multitable AND have a good winrate, which is ldo super cool.

I got to the point last year where I was 8tabling 6max games and 12 tabling FR games. I found, though, that I couldn't sustain a winning game over large samples - for me, bluntly, I just go on autopilot too much w that many tables running and make just stupid mistakes.

I made a conscious decision this year to stick to 4tabling 6max games as a result, and to focus on extracting as much value from each situation as possible. I spend more time reviewing each step of the hand and Villain's stats, and looking for opportunities to play hands I autofold if I'm playing more tables. I'm happier w my game, though I still have to fight an itch to increase volume. But I'm hoping to move up in limits to the point where I stop having an itch to increase volume.

For anyone who reads this and knows I have an interest in rush poker, the difference is the HUD - since I don't use one in rush, and the play appears to be so poor in rush, it's kind of an exception for me.

Like I say, fwiw...

Interesting, glad you brought this up. I wanted to know, what's say the win rate of a good 16-tabler compared to the winrate of a good 4-tabler?

And when does multi tabling become impossible to sustain and make a profit of due to the high level? 200NL, 400NL, 1000 what?

 

[slycbnew]

Afraid I can't answer those questions (but I can ramble and let someone else correct my mistakes ) - "good" winrates vary by limit (2.5BB/100 is considered good at 200nl, but is not great at 10nl) in addition to the impact multitabling has. I'm not sure how much the average MMT'er gives up in winrate in order to improve his hourly rate.

As pointed out by others in this thread, when you're MMT'ing, you need to avoid spots that you might play if you were only 4tabling. So, a 6max player might play a 18/15 style while MMT'ing, but might play a 28/22 or looser style when playing fewer tables. One reason players will target MMT'ers is that they know their lines can't be that creative/unusual, since they have limited time to make decisions. My assumption is that there aren't a ton of MMT'ers (or any) at, say, 600nl and up cuz the cost of losing value by not working things through would be too high, though I could very well be wrong.

 

[dmorris68]

Yeah I don't think there is very much multi-tabling happening at high stakes. Maybe a couple or so tables, but not 16. It's pretty much a completely different game from the micros, where playing ABC poker in volume is profitable. At high stakes I think you really have to outplay your opponents on a regular basis to do well, and that's typically not conducive to 16 tabling.

That said, there are grinders like Leatherass making millions per year massively multi-tabling lower stakes like 100NL-400NL. So if you're comfortable with MMT, have a solid game, and can put in the volume, then you can certainly make a profit comparable to most of the top high-stakes players. It's certainly not for everyone though.

I will note that I'm coming off a months long downswing, something like 30BI and -3BB/100 overall, where I was playing typically 1-4 tables, sometimes 6. Mostly 50NL but taking a few shots at 100NL, then moving down to 10NL and 25NL to stop the bleeding for awhile. Since getting some CC coaching and adjusting my game, I actually increased to 9+ tables of 50NL FR where I'm steadily winning again. Still a ways to go to get completely out of my slump, but I'm up to -1.5BB/100 now overall, and if I count only 50NL and disregard the other stakes with relatively few hands, I'm actually about even now at -$10 and -0.02BB/100 over the last 48K hands. So adjusting my game to a more MMT appropriate style while adding a few more tables has thus far proved profitable for me, assuming I can sustain it over the long term. In the first 3 days of this month, I'm up 5.5BI's.

Oh, and if you have HEM there is a recently added stat that shows how many tables a player is currently playing. IIRC it requires the Table Scanner add-on though, which I have but seldom use since I tend to have better luck manually table selecting. I'm loathe to say so since I'm a 9-12 tabler myself, but the idea is to use this stat to exploit MMTers and their nittier style of play. Of course you should be careful trying to do so once they've entered a pot.