how do you feel about minraises?

[sexytamuman]

hate them because it makes you look weak and doesnt really serve any purpose b/c it allows everyone to come into the pot b/c u didnt make a big enough raise

 

[zek]

I hate min raising bastards. If I have a premium holding I'm likely to put you all-in.
It's either going to be :icon_sant time for you or me.

-Raymond

 

[zachvac]

Are you saying minraising is a valid strategy heads up? I'm very curious because I was recently talking with someone who suggested that, and I tried playing that way and it just didn't feel right.

HU is extremely opponent-dependent but it is definitely a play I (and also more experienced HU players, not like I'm pulling this out of thin air lol) will use. The underlying point of my post though was especially in HU where when you raise you get position the postflop play is so much bigger of a factor than preflop raise size.

Let's go one step further and get specific. If I minraise every hand HU how would my opponent exploit that? Seems the best way would be to call a lot. Now I get to play a ton of pots in position against them.

But basically the point of my post was instead of people saying "this is how you have to play", people should think more about why things happen. Poker is an exploitive game. The way we make money is we make plays that a good opponent could exploit but the bad opponents we are playing against won't be able to exploit. So basically if the extent of someone's logic is "omg minraising is bad and minraisers must suck" instead of thinking about what you are exploiting, how it can be exploited, and how the overall strategy is applied, then I'm pretty sure I could handle them HU even if I would normally raise 3x (although as I mentioned against some opponents I would minraise in HU).

 

[Aaronftw]

Are you saying minraising is a valid strategy heads up? I'm very curious because I was recently talking with someone who suggested that, and I tried playing that way and it just didn't feel right.

Basically because HU is playing the player, mostly post flop not preflop. This disguises ALL hands, big hands and small hands. Just like Barry greenstein.

 

[flyfish4]

dont mind doing it from early pos with a hand that u want to see a flop with but not risk ur whole stack with ex suited QJ or J 10. from late pos i raise more or not at all.

 

[roundcat]

Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation. Then perhaps the guy is not such a donkey nutbag as I originally thought.

 

[Skidmark]

Basically because HU is playing the player, mostly post flop not preflop. This disguises ALL hands, big hands and small hands. Just like Barry greenstein.

so ur against 3betting or 4 betting etc hu huh?

 

[rwilson]

HU is extremely opponent-dependent but it is definitely a play I (and also more experienced HU players, not like I'm pulling this out of thin air lol) will use. The underlying point of my post though was especially in HU where when you raise you get position the postflop play is so much bigger of a factor than preflop raise size.

Let's go one step further and get specific. If I minraise every hand HU how would my opponent exploit that? Seems the best way would be to call a lot. Now I get to play a ton of pots in position against them.

But basically the point of my post was instead of people saying "this is how you have to play", people should think more about why things happen. Poker is an exploitive game. The way we make money is we make plays that a good opponent could exploit but the bad opponents we are playing against won't be able to exploit. So basically if the extent of someone's logic is "omg minraising is bad and minraisers must suck" instead of thinking about what you are exploiting, how it can be exploited, and how the overall strategy is applied, then I'm pretty sure I could handle them HU even if I would normally raise 3x (although as I mentioned against some opponents I would minraise in HU).

I can see why you'd consider min-raising your pots in position, purely to up the stakes while you're in a spot where you should be winning more of the hands.

But, you're pricing in basically any two cards when you min-raise heads up, so while they've got no idea what you're raising each time, it's always harder to define what they're calling you with as well.

Zachvacs right, minimum raising is definitely a strategy that you can work (HU especially), but you should also know that when you run with this sort of thing you're postflop play has to be spot on. You see pro's like Hellmuth and Negreanu that'll play like this, but their post flop play is generally exceptional. You'll even see Negreanu min-raising multiway pots in tournaments and stuff like that. For your average joe blow playing poker, min-raising a lot can get you into trouble.

 

[billyth3kid]

i look at min raises as a feeler bet.. if n e one has a decent hand theyll let you know.. but yeah you would hate playing me cause when im big stack i min raise 8 out of 10 hands and min raise on the flop.. usually people get pisses and over bet with some mid to top pair... but basically im waiting for someone to over bet when i have something decent... if someone reraises big and i dont have n e thing decent it just cancles out the blinds i got the last 2 3 or 4 hands.... but when they make the wrong move i get their whole stack...but like i said i only do that as big stack

 

[The Muppetteer]

Min-raising is a recipe for disaster in my opinion especially at a full table. If the game is short handed then it might be a better play but still I want to know that players have a decent hand when they call (although this is not always the case),

If you only min-raise especially in early position you let too many player into the pot and from there any 2 cards could be good.

As an example I cracked AA form the BB with 84o when a player min-raised from 3rd position on an 8 handed table and 2 players called so for me it was 50 into a pot 375 which was an easy call, then I flopped 2 pair and the rest is history. Whereas if he had raised to 200 I would have folded and his AA would have stood up but as I always say I want you to call when I have AA I just don’t want you to get lucky.

The Muppetteer

 

[Dalsue214]

If your playing limit poker it means u mostly have a good hand or is a test to see what YOU personally have...

In PL or NL holdem it is mostly either A) a semi bluff, B) a test, or C) a possible monster hand dependin what pos and where... (flop/turn/river) you are at

 

[DonkeyKong]

IMO, the min raise serves no purpose.

 

[jaco_bina69]

sometime i miniraise because some players use the check/fold button and is easy to gt some players out of that play

 

[Behrens900]

sometime i miniraise because some players use the check/fold button and is easy to gt some players out of that play

Unfortunately I find myself using the check/fold button occasionally, like when I have J2 in the BB , no one raises , and flop is A K 8. Min bet me and its yours. However, minraise is a different situation because you are raising into someone elses bet as opposed to leading out. I love the min raise because it can accomplish two things. The first is that you will get someone who leads out with nothing to lay down his hand. If you have a decent hand or a drawing hand, and your raise is called, it can shift the position in your favor. In other words, someone betting top pair with a low kicker may bet the flop, and when you minraise him he may call, but check the turn fearing strength in your hand. This essentially gives you two drawing cards for the price of one, as you can check the turn and get a free river.

 

[VerbalKint]

Ever play against these guys online who exclusively min raise 99% of the time? I mean every friggin hand its the min raise, whether its AA or 72 o/s. They don`t hesitate to call your re-raise over 70% of the time either. At first I didn`t think much of it but it does alter your thinking a bit. You get less limpers and it makes the big pairs stand out because you now have to go 3 or 4x over his min raise to get heads up action. Not sure of what the exact strategy is with this move but I think there`s a thread discussing this somewhere on here. I think its comparable with someone who bets every flop no matter what it is, figuring any pressure you put on your opponent is good. Anything you do to get your opponent to alter his game and put him back on his heels is good.

 

[antizzle23]

i like to min raise with big hands utg because someone in the blinds might think with their middle A that im weaker than i am and come over the top of me
then i go all in and they think they have a shot of being ahead
and if its early in tournaments ill do it from time to time when i wanna play a flop and feel i can out play anyone at my table...