how am i losing? cant seem to beat 10nl zoom. heres my graph and my stats.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
You are basically losing the rake more or less. Which mean you are no worse but also no better than the average opponent. I gave up Zoom games many years ago, because I had a similar experience with them. They tend to be very reg infested, and the format help recreational players to fix their biggest leak, which is playing to many hands out of boredom. My tracker showed, that there was way less limping in Zoom games than on regular tables, and this alone will lead to a significantly lower winrate. So to sum it up you are playing one of the toughest formats in online poker, and if you feel, you are banging your head against a well, then my advice is to try something else. Zoom games also dont lead anywhere, since you cant play them live, and the format is also not common for tournaments.
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Samweis3
Visionary
Bronze Level
@fundiver199 : all my hands in hand analysis thread also from Zoom and I have had a similar feeling the other night. I do not think I did too much wrong but still losing money on nearly 30,000 hands. As I was trying to get some cash dollar via the weekly leaderboard but I did not manage to finish in top 25 for German players (in fact 5€ for 25th who had double amount of points compared to me), I will this week try to play FR again. I believe that there are more fishes around and that many people do not have enough discipline to fold enough - let’s see if I have 
Only shortcoming for me, I can only play 3, max. 4 tables at the same time as I play on mobile phone. So really a mental challenge to play only hands worth to play in order not to run into calling stations with monster hands
Only shortcoming for me, I can only play 3, max. 4 tables at the same time as I play on mobile phone. So really a mental challenge to play only hands worth to play in order not to run into calling stations with monster hands
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Samweis3
Visionary
Bronze Level
I am also no expert for HUDs, but it seems you are also loosing a lot of money while folding on the way to the river/showdown, while your showdown win rate is quite OK, but still is not earning enough money to cover other losses
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Station_Master
Legend
Platinum Level
As mentioned above moving to regular tables would be a good idea.
At first glance your stats seemed ok, obviously it's how you play the hands that counts, I.e. Choosing your spots well to bluff or bluff catch. That said,
Your fold to 3bet is way too high. I dont think it's a huge problem at 10NL, as relatively few regs will pick up on it to exploit you, but you are still folding out small bits of EV. Call and 4bet more.
Your wtsd and wsd are slightly high, suggesting not enough thin value betting or bluff catching
At first glance your stats seemed ok, obviously it's how you play the hands that counts, I.e. Choosing your spots well to bluff or bluff catch. That said,
Your fold to 3bet is way too high. I dont think it's a huge problem at 10NL, as relatively few regs will pick up on it to exploit you, but you are still folding out small bits of EV. Call and 4bet more.
Your wtsd and wsd are slightly high, suggesting not enough thin value betting or bluff catching
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
There are different fold to 3bet stats though. This seem to be the general one, which will also count situations, where someone else open, someone else 3-bet, and then the action gets to you. Lets say that in two hands CO open, BTN 3-bet, the blinds fold, and in one of the hands CO fold, while in the other hand CO call or 4-bet. That will give CO a fold to 3-bet of 50%, which is sort of middle of the road. However because SB and BB also folded, the overall population number will be a fold to 3-bet of 83%, which makes it seem like, 3-bets are insanely profitable. But that is sort of misleading, and for that reason I personally use the stat "fold to 3-bet after raising", which will only count the action of the original raiser.
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
The issue is that it's 6 handed fast fold, so you end up playing against the top of people's ranges way more often and lose your blinds faster. The rake kills you usually. The only way to win in this format is to be very good at only playing when there are plenty of fish in the pool, which is rather rare at 10NL.
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Station_Master
Legend
Platinum Level
Ok makes more sense now, not familiar with this HUD and just assumed it was folds as pre flop raiser. Not sure the use of the general stat
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Samweis3
Visionary
Bronze Level
For me it worked out perfectly to switch to normal 2NL 6 max tables today after playing complete week at 2NL zoom.
Without rake adjustment 19,8 $ profit over 1400 hands. With rake adjustment still over 15$.
I will continue on normal speed 6 max for the time being.
Without rake adjustment 19,8 $ profit over 1400 hands. With rake adjustment still over 15$.
I will continue on normal speed 6 max for the time being.
jasioo
Rock Star
Bronze Level
You are too loose, VPIP:24 PFR: 20, note that on Zoom tables, weak hands are folded immediately by players, and winning players only play strong starting hands, if they don't hit anything on the flop, they fold. You play 24% of your hands and 20% aggressively pre-flop, and in my opinion this is too much. Unless you can "read" your opponent and are a very good post-flop player. And you should realize that the flop changes everything,. Your AA preflop can become a very weak hand on a single-color flop that also gives a straight OESD or ready street to your opponent
Suns of Beaches
With a Balloon to the Moon
Bronze Level
"Winning players are playing only strong starting hands, if they dont hit something on the flop they fold"
This statement could not be more off. Tell this to a top zoom reg and he will burst out in laugh.
jasioo
Rock Star
Bronze Level
"Unless you can "read" your opponent and are a very good post-flop player" (this is moste important)- moste of top players are good players post-flot, week players are only good preflop. and moste of them (week players) have no idea what to do after flop
Aballinamion
Sleeping with the Dark Lady of the Sith
Loyaler
As other have said, I tried to beat Zoom Tables several times but all in vain. I believe there’s a very specific strategy and game plan to be profitable at these games and I don’t own it.
Recording my most amazing losses, one attempt I lost 25 buy-ins of NLHE 2 Zoom. Second attempt I lost 18 buy-ins and the last attempt I tried a few weeks ago and ended up losing 22 buy-ins.
I recommend you to play regular tables and specially Full Ring, because most of recreational players are there nowadays.
One more thing: forget about graphs immediately! Remember that poker is a game that we cannot allow ourselves to be results oriented and for a small sample of hands (less than one million hands) graphs can lie and lead you to commit several mistakes.
All in all I would recommend not to use any poker tracker until you have played at least 500 K hands or if you aren’t moving up from the stake you are currently playing to a higher and harder stake.
However, there are very good players that can crush Zoom easily, they have the mindset and a proper tactical approach, but I’m not one of those and many players should never risk playing Zoom, because no matter how much applied and good you are, Zoom let us the feeling that opponents are only going with the nuts, and the frustration can be overwhelming.
I’m not sure but I think that to play Zoom we must have at least 200 buy-ins because we can easily lose 10, 20, 30 buy-ins in one single session.
And consider that the blinds run fast and we are naturally forced to play more hands: one single hour playing Zoom that we aren’t crushing, we are losing 100-150 BB, if we don’t make any major mistake.
Zoom is a game that either we crush it or we are crushed by it. I’m crushed by it and I gave up wasting my time in a game format that only leads to disappointment, dissatisfaction and frustration.
I’m not a regular poker player, but I’m not a dumb as well. So when I find myself hitting my head against the wall (playing Zoom and never winning), I simply assume that I don’t have what’s necessary to be a winning player.
I do very much better profit plus I have lots of fun playing Full Ring tables. So, what’s the point to continue playing Zoom, just to show my ego that I cannot accept losing?
georgi krastev
Legendary Donk-Fish
Loyaler
If you make a big blunders, ain't gonna beat NL10.
I can see that up to about 6k hands you're running pretty good and all of a sudden you start falling off and not improving…
Review hand history and see if you are bluffing too much; see the big pots with what hands you go into them; see how you play pocket monsters; how you play marginal hands... With what hands you go all-in preflop, postflop...
Could you please share, if you want, some hands played by you to be analyzed…
Before you start playing NL10, have you beat the NL2 and NL5. NL10 players are better than the last two limits...
I can see that up to about 6k hands you're running pretty good and all of a sudden you start falling off and not improving…
Review hand history and see if you are bluffing too much; see the big pots with what hands you go into them; see how you play pocket monsters; how you play marginal hands... With what hands you go all-in preflop, postflop...
Could you please share, if you want, some hands played by you to be analyzed…
Before you start playing NL10, have you beat the NL2 and NL5. NL10 players are better than the last two limits...
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
I found Z00m-style tables (not necessarily Stars) helped me to improve dramatically. I enjoy playing those tables AND I really enjoy watching the guys are the best players at that format (I watch a couple of them streaming and have become friends with one of them).
Lots of misconceptions.
Honestly I don't know how a person can't win playing on 2nl ZOOM tables - - so many fish there that are trying to give you their money/chips.
Lots of misconceptions.
Honestly I don't know how a person can't win playing on 2nl ZOOM tables - - so many fish there that are trying to give you their money/chips.
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fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
There is a pretty big difference between 2NL and 10NL though.