HOH Volume 1 - Book Discussion Part 1

[Makwa]

This to Alon Ipser and above:

3X BB preflop is the standard raise, promoted by Gordon, Greenstein and others, as a consistent raise that cannot be read. Harrington DOES NOT subscribe to this; he will go into details about your reasoning behind raise size (it is variable, anything from a probe bet of 10% of the pot to C bet of 50% to all-in)... it is dependent on previous actions, people left to act, their styes, your position in the tourney (M value in Book 2), and your cards.
He does not teach formulas so much, rather helps you understand the factors to take into account when deciding how to size a bet, or raise.
Excellent stuff!! Keep reading!!

 

[Debi]

I will start the part 2 thread later today.

 

[Makwa]

I will start the part 2 thread later today.

Txs, like the new avatar, but miss the dogs...

 

[Debi]

Oh - today is only the 8th - I have one more day to start it.

(and I still have some reading to do lol)

 

[dj11]

This brings up a question for me. Probably jumping the gun here but I've never read the book before so don't know if my question is covered later on. I normally bet 3 times the big blind when I raise preflop and am the first one that has acted. However if one person limps in in front of me I will usually bet 4 times or if 2 people limp then 5 times. Is this correct or should I be looking at some other way to determine my preflop raises with limpers in front of me?

If there really is such a thing, this would be considered the standard, and you have it correct. Harrington refers to these ratios often, but also varies his bets, so one time a raise is 2x, and another its 5x with no limpers before you. I don't remember if he goes into varied bets with limpers ahead of you, and from what I think I've read he would revert to the standard style, just exactly what you wrote, once he was entering an open pot.

 

[Syfted]

It doesn't matter if you opponent knows or not. He still has the same chance of filling his flush as someone who does understand.

If you always give 3-1 pot odds and untrained opponent always calls but only hits 1 out of 4 times.

If you played 100 times for $1 it costs him/her $100 to call 100 times. They hit 1 out of 4 times so they win 25 times out of 100, and they win $3 each time so $75 total. Your net is + $25.

I cringe every time I read this or something like it.

What you state only applies looking at a single street in a vacuum. You may not necessarily be able to put your opponent on a draw. What are you going to do, fold every time the board comes three to a flush? If you make the nut straight, you're probably going to loose BIG to that bad player's 8-2s that he raised preflop trying to catch a flush.

The important thing to remember is that your opponent has implied odds too. Please don't forget that!

 

[Archinutz]

This is a fantastic idea discussing the book. Its a treasure trove and has helped me tremendously. I've been reading a different but similar book but I will put that down and reread Vol. 1 to join in on this discussion. I look foreard to discussions and ideas that can be expanded. I've always been great at math and I do think Harrington is underrated by poker players in general.

 

[salex77]

Re: preflop raises

Yes the standard raise advocated by most pros 3x to prevent reads from opponents, or min raise which is deception and sometimes gives away a big hand as many amatuer players use min raise 2x forpremium hands like AA, KK these are different strategies and when you are short stacked and have less than 10 X blind yes you now are in push or fold mode due to the m factor which harrington discusses in book 2 and states that the m concept was developed by Paul Magriel X-22 professional backgammon player and poker player. These are endgame strategies but they sometimes have to be employed early in a tournament due to bad beat or losing chips.

 

[Debi]

Feel free to continue this discussion, however I am going to un-stick this thread because part 2 has begun:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/#post947415