help me against the set!

Nitram_80

Nitram_80

Guest
I just lost $100 to a set and realize this is my biggest weakness. If the board has small cards and I have a very high pocket pair , I go all the way mosr of the time, betting aggressive after flop,turn,and river. I guess I just refuse to believe someone has a set and thats so stupid of me. I want to know how you guys play if you think someone has a set. If I have a very good top pair on the flop I usually bet 2/3 of the flop. Then on the turn I usually increase my bet and by the river I may even put more money in like an idiot. At what point do you stop betting or how much do you bet if you think he has hit a set. Please advise. Thanks
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
Nitram_80 said:
I just lost $100 to a set and realize this is my biggest weakness. If the board has small cards and I have a very high pocket pair , I go all the way mosr of the time, betting aggressive after flop,turn,and river. I guess I just refuse to believe someone has a set and thats so stupid of me. I want to know how you guys play if you think someone has a set. If I have a very good top pair on the flop I usually bet 2/3 of the flop. Then on the turn I usually increase my bet and by the river I may even put more money in like an idiot. At what point do you stop betting or how much do you bet if you think he has hit a set. Please advise. Thanks

You sound like you have the same problem that I have at times. It sounds like you get tunnel vision and have to believe you have the best hand. The best advice I can give is to SLOW down before you hit that call button. Especially when they've shown strength after the flop and the turn. Now, they could be bluffing you but take a good look at the board and make sure they are before you continue. I read something recently that said when you're making your decision on what to do with your hand, the most common error of the amature player is not putting yourself in the shoes of your opponent that has either put you all in or just raised you. These are things that I've been working on improving in my own game and keeping these thoughts in the forefront of my mind has helped. I hope it does the same for you
 
F

Freakakanus

Legend
Is there a pair on the board or are you losing to PP's people have in their hands?
If there is a pair on the board and you bet out and someone reraises, you should probably fold.
If you are getting beat by pp's in the hole then you need to analyze the betting patterns and not be so stubborn, check a card sometimes and see where you stand. Firing 3 bullets works but if they are beating you into the pot you need to slow down.
 
JeeDub84

JeeDub84

Visionary
I think the problem is that you are commiting too much money on a mediocre hand. As you have experienced and so have the rest of us, any wired pair that hit or even two pair on the board will have you beat when you have that wired overpair. What I have learned in my experience is that you must not overvalue that top pair or overpair. When you feel the heat after the flop then you must really have to know your opponent to committ so much of your stack on just a pair. If you dont really know your opponent then you must lower your bets to minimize your loss or check it to try and get a set yourself. You dont have to win all the money right away. Think for the long term so you dont get yourself broke.
 
Nitram_80

Nitram_80

Guest
thanks guys. My problem is that I never slow play top pair so I always bet close to the pot size on the pot. I just think that if you dont show you have strength , these fish will call you with a low pair and hope for a set or 2pair or chase a draw. Lets also say that I bet strong on the flop and the turn and then check on the river b/c I think he has a set, most of these online players will try to bluff you out of the pot right there when they missed their card. I guess you have to look for a reraise but again these players bluff so much that it makes it hard to know what they have.But like someone said earlier ,it helps to know you opponent and really take your time.I do agree with medeiros that its like a tunnel vision and you always assume you have the best hand. Still this is one of the hardest things for me to identify in poker and hopefully time will make it better. More advice is welcomed.
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

Legend
if the person is a tight player, take notice the FIRST time they call you flat (flop).

that should send up warning flares. at worst after that, check call down.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Awards
1
First off, you need to know when to consider it a reasonable possibility. If there's alot of limping preflop, then bet cautiously with top pair. If preflop betting is strong, it's lees likely that someone is hanging around with a low pocket pair, this is why it's important to lead out preflop with almost any hand your willing to play, otherwise, your just flying in the dark and vulnerable to anyone with trips or 2 pair. If you bet strong and the flop comes up rags against one opponent, then you're probably in good shape. If you're up against 2 or more and you bet out and get called by both, it's almost a certainty that you're beat somehow.
 
AlurOne

AlurOne

Rock Star
i might add that if you are playing low stakes (especially limit), then most players will not be trying to bluff you. if you have a decent pair, and you get raised or re-raised, play very cautiously or just fold in those low stakes games.
 
C

colin_147

Guest
There is no special way to play against a set, IMHO. It is possibly the hardest hand to pick up when your opponent hits and can be such a horrible way to go out the tournament. Saying that, when you hit that small set, especially if an A or a K hits the flop, its a great feeling knowing you are more than likely to take down a good pot by slow playing your opponent

Usually if a preflop limper raisers you with a ragged flop, its quite possible that he feels you missed the flop and is trying to buy the pot, thinking you may have AK/AQ and will fold, so dont figure them for a set everytime. Its very difficult to lay down top pair in the hole to a flop full of undercards but poker is also about discipline. I have been ko'd from a tournament by a hit set probably more times than against any other hand. I think its about instinct as well. For instance, if I see an aggressive player limping preflop, then calling my preflop raise, only to then re-raise my follow through bet with a ragged flop, its quite possible he hit and you gotta lay down

Of course there will be times when you will muck the bets hand but there will be times when you make a great fold and you feel a whole lot better for it
 
Nitram_80

Nitram_80

Guest
colin_147 said:
There is no special way to play against a set, IMHO. It is possibly the hardest hand to pick up when your opponent hits and can be such a horrible way to go out the tournament. Saying that, when you hit that small set, especially if an A or a K hits the flop, its a great feeling knowing you are more than likely to take down a good pot by slow playing your opponent

Usually if a preflop limper raisers you with a ragged flop, its quite possible that he feels you missed the flop and is trying to buy the pot, thinking you may have AK/AQ and will fold, so dont figure them for a set everytime. Its very difficult to lay down top pair in the hole to a flop full of undercards but poker is also about discipline. I have been ko'd from a tournament by a hit set probably more times than against any other hand. I think its about instinct as well. For instance, if I see an aggressive player limping preflop, then calling my preflop raise, only to then re-raise my follow through bet with a ragged flop, its quite possible he hit and you gotta lay down

Of course there will be times when you will muck the bets hand but there will be times when you make a great fold and you feel a whole lot better for it

you make a good point in that alot of times if the cards are low they put you on AK or AQ and so they try to scare you again. Discipline and good judgement are crucial there. Im very interested in knowing how you guys would bet out if you think he maybe hit a set on the flop. Say you have top pair and you bet about the pot size on the flop and he calls. On the turn do you check , bet about the same amount from the flop or bet even more. If he reraises you on turn, do you fold here ? Assuming that you dont know the player.
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

Rock Star
Nitram_80 said:
Im very interested in knowing how you guys would bet out if you think he maybe hit a set on the flop. Say you have top pair and you bet about the pot size on the flop and he calls. On the turn do you check , bet about the same amount from the flop or bet even more. If he reraises you on turn, do you fold here ? Assuming that you dont know the player.

I'm a believer in the Dan Harrington theory he presents in his book in regards to betting. If you're scared your opponent hit a set, throw out a probing bet of about 1/3 of the pot. If that got called, I'd do the same on the river. If I got raised and had a fear of a set, I'd fold. It is my opinion that sometimes a fold is a strong play. The only problem with the probing bet is your opponent may see your bets as value bets on his end (although by Harrington's definition, a value bet is closer to half the pot) and happily call you because you're building the pot for him. However, if this is the case, at least you gained some knowledge about the player and limited the loss damage incurred.
 
P

pokerhannes

Guest
Make a value bet on ur pocket pair when the board has smaller cards.
U got to see if the other person even wanna put in money and if ur feelins say: he hit the set, fold! Always go with ur feelings and tells.
 
T

The Shakuni

Guest
I always find myself losing with Q's to trip Fours. If I raise a little bit, they re-raise a whole lot, so I just figure they're doing it with Ace high or just A low kicker. If he is consistently calling, you should check a card and save yourself some money (even though it may result in some lost money some times. )
 
S

Styrofoam

Visionary
well played sets (2 hole cards used matches a flopped card) are KILLERS against high pocket pairs. Nearly as bad as someone hitting AK against 22 on an AK2 board.

Anyhow, If i were playing you and noticed you over-played your Pocket pairs, i'd slow down and let you bet the pot for me with a raise on the river. IMO, thats the BEST way to beat you for the most money rather than raising.... for example

you have QQ in the hole, and i have 44. The flop is 924. You lead out for 10$ and I Raise to 30$. You HAVE to slow down here. A pair of queens is usually good here, but against a big raise you're looking at 2 pair (unlikely because they would have had to call your preflop raise) or a set. You call the raise, but now you almost certainly must check the turn unless it yeilds a queen - where I will bet out a pot sized bet. You have almost no choice but to fold. I've shown too much strength, and all you have is a pair. I make $30 here whereas...

We hold the same cards - flop comes 924 again. You bet 10$ i call. Turn is a blank and you now bet 25$. I call. The river is a blank again, you bet 30$ and i raise to 60. Now, you're almost always going to call that raise because i've shown no strength. We're looking at 95$
 
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