GTO

[MrG31]

Cash games at the micro stakes level is GTO (Game Theory Optimal) play post flop more effective than exploitative play? I would appreciate everyone thoughts.
Thanks

 

[SPYDER1998]

Best to play Exploitative in Micro-stakes. You can watch Charlie Carrel's micro stakes coaching in YT, its very helpful mate.

 

[liuouhgkres]

Even though exploitative play will work at low stakes, I think it's better to start playing simplified GTO as early as possible. You want to move up, and if you want to move up and stay at higher stakes you will need to learn gto sooner or later.

 

[MrG31]

Best to play Exploitative in Micro-stakes. You can watch Charlie Carrel's micro stakes coaching in YT, its very helpful mate.[/QUO

Thank you for your advice

 

[MrG31]

Even though exploitative play will work at low stakes, I think it's better to start playing simplified GTO as early as possible. You want to move up, and if you want to move up and stay at higher stakes you will need to learn gto sooner or later.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

100% more profitable to play exploitative at these stakes because they will offer you many spots to make more on. GTO is best when the opponents are tough or we have little information on our opponent we assume is a solid player.

With this said, getting a little GTO foundation on the side might not be a bad idea and you can even incorporate some GTO concepts into your play. It is much more profitable to play exploitative against players making huge mistakes though - save the real GTO play for the tougher regs

 

[Evan Jarvis]

Cash games at the micro stakes level is GTO (Game Theory Optimal) play post flop more effective than exploitative play? I would appreciate everyone thoughts.
Thanks

GTO is just needed to have an understanding of what theoretically 'correct' play looks like when taking 'balance' into consideration.

Exploitative poker is going to make you the most money when you are playing micro stakes and small stakes, there is honestly almost no need to think about GTO play because most of your opponents will just be playing THEIR cards and not thinking about yours.

 

[MrG31]

Thank you for your advice.

 

[John A]

GTO is just needed to have an understanding of what theoretically 'correct' play looks like when taking 'balance' into consideration.

Exploitative poker is going to make you the most money when you are playing micro stakes and small stakes, there is honestly almost no need to think about GTO play because most of your opponents will just be playing THEIR cards and not thinking about yours.

+1

And I'd like to add, I know the cool new thing for the past years has been GTO play, and pros on training sites have been touting it and people have been pimping GTO products. But honestly the FIRST thing you should learn is exploitive play. If you don't know how to adjust properly to what your opponents are doing, then everything else is moot.

That doesn't mean you can't learn GTO theoretically, so you can understand what balanced play looks like ideally. But you shouldn't be bringing this as the first thing to the table imho. You have to learn to exploit your opponents first, and then as you move up, and your opponents make less and less mistakes, you need to apply GTO play more.

 

[liuouhgkres]

+1

And I'd like to add, I know the cool new thing for the past years has been GTO play, and pros on training sites have been touting it and people have been pimping GTO products. But honestly the FIRST thing you should learn is exploitive play. If you don't know how to adjust properly to what your opponents are doing, then everything else is moot.

That doesn't mean you can't learn GTO theoretically, so you can understand what balanced play looks like ideally. But you shouldn't be bringing this as the first thing to the table imho. You have to learn to exploit your opponents first, and then as you move up, and your opponents make less and less mistakes, you need to apply GTO play more.

How you going to adjust correctly if you don't know how to play GTO in the first place?

 

[tuca_rp_pokerstars]

What's the best cheap way to start learn GTO?

 

[NWPatriot]

How you going to adjust correctly if you don't know how to play GTO in the first place?

I agree. We need to know what exploitive play looks like and what perfect poker vs. perfect opponents looks like. Then we are able to adjust to as needed. We can't adjust if we don't know.

Of course, at the lowest of stakes when exploitive play works 90% of the time, it doesn't matter much. But almost everyone is learning and improving their game, so if we arent' doing the same, we will be left behind.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[Evan Jarvis]

+1

And I'd like to add, I know the cool new thing for the past years has been GTO play, and pros on training sites have been touting it and people have been pimping GTO products. But honestly the FIRST thing you should learn is exploitive play. If you don't know how to adjust properly to what your opponents are doing, then everything else is moot.

That doesn't mean you can't learn GTO theoretically, so you can understand what balanced play looks like ideally. But you shouldn't be bringing this as the first thing to the table imho. You have to learn to exploit your opponents first, and then as you move up, and your opponents make less and less mistakes, you need to apply GTO play more.

111%!!!

Great addition John

 

[John A]

I agree. We need to know what exploitive play looks like and what perfect poker vs. perfect opponents looks like. Then we are able to adjust to as needed. We can't adjust if we don't know.

Of course, at the lowest of stakes when exploitive play works 90% of the time, it doesn't matter much. But almost everyone is learning and improving their game, so if we arent' doing the same, we will be left behind.

Good luck and God bless.

No. It's funny because I've heard this fallacy a lot and I assume because in most applications it would make sense logically. You want a baseline so that you can learn what the most profitable deviations would be. That's not the case in poker because you're playing a game of incomplete information.

What you want to learn first as your baseline is what the highest EV play would be in a given situation IF your opponent didn't know how to adjust properly. Then you need to learn PLAYER TYPES, and how those personalities think about poker, what their motivations are and how to exploit them.

I wish poker was as easy as just learning some GTO common scenarios, but it's not. It's way more difficult than that, but it starts w/ exploitive play imho.

And just as a side note, from someone who has played at all levels of poker for 14+ years online, when you learn exploitative play, you will start to understand GTO play much better. A majority of the strategies I was employing before GTO was really something players used, I was already implementing (you can watch videos of my talking about balanced frequencies over 10 years ago online, before it was a thing, and many people used to laugh at the idea, now it's considered common sense). There's not many scenarios (minus a few) that I look at a GTO calc and I'm surprised by its solutions because you will understand balance and frequencies extremely well when you really learn exploitative play.

 

[John A]

111%!!!

Great addition John

Ty sir!

 

[NWPatriot]

Thanks John, that does makes sense.