Good read or just lucky.

H

Heshkak

Guest
Hi all,

Just wanted to get people's opinion of a hand I played recently.

It's a 50c/$1 NL Holdem game, 7 at the table. I'm in the SB and dealt A6off.

Two limpers, myself and BB see the flop for the min.

A65 rainbow flops.

I bet $1, fold from the BB, first limper raises to $2, second limper goes all in for $4.

I, thinking that the second limper all in was desparation, raised $8 to try to isolate. The first limper re-raises another $8.

So I go into the tank. He didn't raise pre-flop so he's slow playing or has some sort of connector or suited or low-medium pair.

Suited can't be cause the flop was rainbow, no one would bet like that hopeing for runner-runner.

Connector, maybe, but why would you re-raise on at best an open-ended draw. I really doubt he's drawing.

Low-Medium pair is possible. He could have flopped a set. But the betting pattern isn't right. Why only raise $1 on top of me, if he had a set it should have been more. Also, that second raise is odd too, if he had a set then why not all in?

Conclusion, he has A with a big kicker(K-J) and thinks it's good.

I CALL! (Lage pot now)

Turn brings a KING!!!! (GOD DAMN IT)

So, me being in early position and thinking he likely has a bigger 2 pair, I CHECK.

He bets $11 into what is now a $30-$40 pot.

I go into the tank again. What is with this guy? If he hit with the King why not a bigger bet(he has $30 before the $11 bet, about the same as me)? Why not all in? This small to medium bet just doesn't seem right. Conclusion: He still has A big (Q-J) and isn't afraid of the king, nor does he have it.

I CALL. (Big pot now approx $50)

River is a 8.

This brings the possible straight, but I'm confident that he doesn't have it.

Being unsure of exactly the strength of my 2 pair. I CHECK.

He NOW goes all in (about $19-15) bet. I only have about $11-13 to call with.

Again, I go in the tank. This smells of a desparation bet to me, he's hoping that I missed whatever I was going for and either fold or call with Ace rag. I still think he's got AQ or AJ, and I likely him beat.

I CALL ALL IN.

The software shows the cards really fast and shoves chips to both him and me (and not the all in guy). I look at my total and it's sitting at $80.

I WON THE MAIN POT!

How did he get chips? What did he have?

Well, his all in was $2 more than mine, so he was returned that $2. I beat the all in player (he had garbage) and beat the other guy.

I look at the history, it shows me that he had 56off.

Now all of his betting makes sence. He flopped 2 pair as I did, and was fearful of the set, but fairly confident 2 pair was the top hand.

So, my read, although close, was INCORRECT. But I did take down a huge pot.

My question is....... was it a good read? or just a lucky one?

-Hesh
 
Grumbledook

Grumbledook

Guest
Interesting hand that one. Its a bit hard to digest though as its often hard to put people on hands at the lower limits, even more so if there were a few limpers preflop.

Quite what he put you on after you had called I am not sure, thats if he even thought about it ;]

The key bet I think was his $11 on the turn, though I would have been worried about him milking a set. Here its marginal and he could have had either the set for slow play the hand he did have or what you thought. In which case an $11 call for that size pot which you would win more often than not based on that thinking does make sense. Consider the fact that the only possible set at that point was 5s as you and the board had 2 aces and 2 6s that left 3 possible starting hands of pair of 5s which had you beat.

At that point top 2 pair was almost certainly going to be the best hand. So maybe it would have been best moving all in after his reraise and putting him to the test there.

Trouble is with poker there are so many ways to play things and there isn't always just one right way.
 
T

themyst

Guest
He could have very well had a set of 5's, or even 6's along with you. Given your situation, I would have moved in on him on the flop, chances are you do have the best hand... seems like you knew in your head the whole time you were winning, so why not push it? I've seen many times where the case card hits on the flop when 3 of them are held among players. However, it is as rare as set over set, heck, I've seen instances where it was a huge battle between AA vs AK, and the flop came A K rag.
 
L

leetodie

Guest
Yeah, when he's doing his betting like he did, the possibility that he hit a set is rather big, and then slowplaying it. Hard to tell about it was luck or good playing.
 
P

PattyG

Guest
Yeah, all that thnking will usually do nothing for ya in lo limit, cause some people don't care if they lose 20 bucks, and others will GO NUTS for 20 (like me) ...

But lets say a guy had 23 off and wanted to buy it, and hope that he hit his draw, then your looking at all these fearfull hands that could beat your top two pair, and quite frankly,... I just would not want to be in that situation...

...And thats why i hate to love poker!!


PattyG
 
H

hosenose

Enthusiast
me chicken

When cards are like you called them more times than not I get caught with the trips. It is amazing how many times a person with small pair in hole hits and two high pair go to heck. I am not a big believer in two pair hands when people are raising on turn and river. Sometimes its better to give up w winner for small change than get your almighty azzzz kicked with a relatively weak hand! I always remember that half the cards are out there and with seven or more players it is time to be real tight! Then again i keep getting caught with st8s and flushes after trying to qualifty with 30% raises on flop with trips or two high pair. Will learn sometime
 
W

Wlokos

Guest
It was certainly risky, but I think you played it well. Obviously it worked, as you won the pot!
 
ytseshred

ytseshred

Rising Star
I think I need to start taking the size of bets into account when i'm "in the tank" as you said. Your reasoning, and Grumbledook's response are especially helpful, but thanks very much for sharing that story. That'll get my gears going a little more next time I play.
 
K

KK_Cowboy

Guest
Well I think you should have re-raised again on the flop, but obviously you did something right there. If you have 2 pairs and he had trips more is the pity.
 
D

DAVEANOVA

Guest
I think you think to much, sometimes people analyze things to much. You were right. He was just trying to get rid of you.
 
J

jjhooksjj

Guest
bottom two pair is a hand people will play really aggressively, whereas a set is a hand people will put on the breaks at first, and set the trap with more. When you raised the all-in player, you were betting into a dry side pot, and it was evident that you were not bluffing. The player with bottom two pair thought that you could have had an ace, in which case if you hit an ace, your kicker, or a running pair on the board would win the hand for you. He put the pressure on you. If he had a set, which was the only hand that beats you at the time, he liekly would have just called your raise. You played the hand well considering he was drawing slim, and you did not want to take him out of the lead.
 
M

Moose763

Guest
It was most certainly not lucky, you went with your instincts, and that is not by accident because thats what a read is, going with your gut instincts god hand man, you deserve all 80 of those dollars
 
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