Frequency: how often do you raise from the SB?

[Aballinamion]

Hello guys, I'm playing for a couple of weeks and in the beginning I was raising 100% of my range when it came in fold to me in the SB x BB. Now, I'm not doing this. The reason is that I believe that most of players aren't folding 65% of times or more to make my raises automatically profitable.
So I have a question: at the micros, how often do you think opponents will fold when we raise from the SB (steal)? And which sizing do you use most for stealing, 2.5x or 3x and why?

Well, now I'm opening the same range I open from BU for easy tables (I have at least 3 different ranges that I open from every position, depending on the level of the table), so I open nearly 48% of the SB to 3x, when it comes in fold.

Any ideas on this subject will be most appreciated.

 

[liuouhgkres]

You can look up preflop opening ranges at GTO wizard, it should be around 46%, slightly more that BTN open. You can go a bit wider if BB is a nit.

 

[GeckoAA]

I don’t believe I have a certain %. For me I think it depends on the players at the table and how they are tending to play.

 

[Station_Master]

Good question and for me it depends but probably closer to 40% than 50%. I find in the 9max games I play you get more folds than 6 max (and less 3bets) so easier to steal but fewer opportunities. Structure also matters, e.g. I steal more playing 15c/25c than 10c/25c. Depends on player in BB too. It's tough playing out of position so I tend not to overdo it as you will get called or 3bet alot (at 25nl)
2.8 or 3x is a good size in my view.

 

[Ace of Spad3s]

I do it a lot but it does depend on who's on my left. Very tight players I raise every time it folds to me, and the fold equity makes it profitable right away. But if I see people defend a lot and 3-bet I tend to raise a strong range only, to be able to call a 3-bet. So sometimes 70%+, sometimes 20%.

 

[georgi krastev]

at the micros, how often do you think opponents will fold when we raise from the SB (steal)?

If I have a tight image, then they will fold quite a lot with the exception of the players for fun...

And which sizing do you use most for stealing, 2.5x or 3x and why?

Rarely steals from SB,(I could steal from a tight player I have a history with). Hard to steal from recreational players. (Well, sometimes I would allow myself to experiment, but that's rare...)

Personally, I prefer the size x4bb; because if I open with 2.5 or 3bb, for the big blind it's an easy call; he only has to pay 1.5 and 2bb (with any two junks)...

In fact, this is the opening size (4bb) from any position, when everyone folds next to me.

Greetings, mate 💓

 

[Aballinamion]

You can look up preflop opening ranges at GTO wizard, it should be around 46%, slightly more that BTN open. You can go a bit wider if BB is a nit.

This is a good idea mate, but personally I don't like to use charts, I like to create ranges depending on the situation I'm in.

I don’t believe I have a certain %. For me I think it depends on the players at the table and how they are tending to play.

To me as well, but I'm never opening less than 45% because I think that for Zoom Tables it is a waste of blinds.

Good question and for me it depends but probably closer to 40% than 50%. I find in the 9max games I play you get more folds than 6 max (and less 3bets) so easier to steal but fewer opportunities. Structure also matters, e.g. I steal more playing 15c/25c than 10c/25c. Depends on player in BB too. It's tough playing out of position so I tend not to overdo it as you will get called or 3bet alot (at 25nl)
2.8 or 3x is a good size in my view.

Yes, Full Ring is a more soft game than Zoom, much more chances to play postflop game and easier to spot recreational ones and their tendencies after we play a couple of hands. But my question is, we are risking 3 BB in order to win 1.5 BB when they fold, so how often should they fold to make our raises automatically profitable? I assume I'm having some math problems (math weakness). I think that villains should fold at least 65% of times to my steal to make it automatically profitable, but I also don't have this stats because I'm not using any HUD. Well, any ideas would be certainly helpful.

I do it a lot but it does depend on who's on my left. Very tight players I raise every time it folds to me, and the fold equity makes it profitable right away. But if I see people defend a lot and 3-bet I tend to raise a strong range only, to be able to call a 3-bet. So sometimes 70%+, sometimes 20%.

It makes a lot of sense to play this way, thanks for your input!

Rarely steals from SB

This could be a mistake. You are not letting yourself make automatic money by folding too much from the SB when it comes to you to raise first.

I prefer the size x4bb;

I'm not sure if this sizing is useful or profitable, unless you are opening only the sweetest part of your range (22+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+, 10.7% give or take it). Is it the case? Thank you my love, see you!

 

[Ace of Spad3s]

Yes, Full Ring is a more soft game than Zoom, much more chances to play postflop game and easier to spot recreational ones and their tendencies after we play a couple of hands. But my question is, we are risking 3 BB in order to win 1.5 BB when they fold, so how often should they fold to make our raises automatically profitable? I assume I'm having some math problems (math weakness). I think that villains should fold at least 65% of times to my steal to make it automatically profitable, but I also don't have this stats because I'm not using any HUD. Well, any ideas would be certainly helpful.

If they fold 66.6% of the time, that makes you play break-even just on the steal, assuming you would lose the hand if they call. But if they decide to call, you still have a hand to play. Especially since you are stealing you have a very wide range while your opponent plays the top of his range. Having 86o on the SB and getting called by a very tight player, it usually means they have either a pocket pair or some sort of broadway-ish hand or medium suited connector like T9s, which polarizes your hand. Depending on the flop, it can become very easy to spot when you might be behind, and when the board favours your range. If a 248 rainbow board drops, you are most likely way ahead of villain and a C-bet could win you the pot right there or even just bet for value. Sure sometimes you will still lose, but it's also quite easy to get away from the hand vs villains aggression. In the end, it's about recognizing the right stealing spots to be profitable and play smart post-flop.

 

[Station_Master]

This is a good idea mate, but personally I don't like to use charts, I like to create ranges depending on the situation I'm in.

To me as well, but I'm never opening less than 45% because I think that for Zoom Tables it is a waste of blinds.

Yes, Full Ring is a more soft game than Zoom, much more chances to play postflop game and easier to spot recreational ones and their tendencies after we play a couple of hands. But my question is, we are risking 3 BB in order to win 1.5 BB when they fold, so how often should they fold to make our raises automatically profitable? I assume I'm having some math problems (math weakness). I think that villains should fold at least 65% of times to my steal to make it automatically profitable, but I also don't have this stats because I'm not using any HUD. Well, any ideas would be certainly helpful.

Your maths is wrong, as you already put .5bb in the pot so you risk a further 2.5bb to win 1.5bb which I think is 62.5% of time. But most villains arent folding this often.

Why not get a HUD, surely you are putting yourself at a disadvantage not using one and there are free ones available.

 

[georgi krastev]

This could be a mistake. You are not letting yourself make automatic money by folding too much from the SB when it comes to you to raise first.

You're right. I also consider this as a drawback.

I'm not sure if this sizing is useful or profitable, unless you are opening only the sweetest part of your range (22+,ATs+,KJs+,QJs,AJo+, 10.7% give or take it). Is it the case? Thank you my love, see you!

When I first started playing poker, the first article which I read was that blind sizing is done with 4 big blinds… (on the other hand my opponent will have to think about with what to call against 4 bigs).

To this range I would add more; (though my last zoom entry my starting hands looked pretty much the same with a few exceptions, but what range to play with $1 bank ...)

I thank you too, mate 💓💓💓

 

[TeUnit]

With no action in front with an unknown villan around 65%.

I really think its important to adjust to the villan though.

 

[almir nicolau]

Blind war situation will always be a very difficult spot, let's say there is no recipe for cake.
In micros, the field population defends much less than it should, so I think the line of always being the aggressor in this situation is very good.
size:
The GTO tells us that when we are SB vs BB deep stacked and we want to raise with one hand we should make sizes very high eg 4bb to 5.5bb.

With medium stack I decide to attack with size from 2.5 to 3x

Short stack just push.
Tip:
When we have a bad hand we want our opponent to fold so we can apply pressure.
When we have a hand that we don't want to fold to a possible 3bet from bigblande and that will be difficult to defend as we are out of position I just limp and call if they raise. (example of a hand we want to see the flop, it has good post-flop playability)
And whenever we attack the bigblind, always bet from 33% to 50% of the pot (always cebet in this situation)

 

[georgi krastev]

Today I tried to steal with some junks, but I got called, even 3bet sometimes ...

I think this is the right way (at least at this low level): Tight is right!

 

[pentazepam]

Today I tried to steal with some junks, but I got called, even 3bet sometimes ...

I think this is the right way (at least at this low level): Tight is right!

You change from a polarized to a linear 3-bet range if they refuse to fold and call a lot. Same with your stealing range.

 

[georgi krastev]

You change from a polarized to a linear 3-bet range if they refuse to fold and call a lot. Same with your stealing range.

That's why i loose 3 buy-in's (pretty fast) when i start playing NH2, & later I'm barely breaking even...

 

[bullkk]

I do the rise from a SB very often.

 

[300HPGOD]

I think the answer to this should be purely opponent dependent. Are they a strong or weak player... I want to be involved in more hands if they are weak so maybe a case could be made for just flatting against them but if they are weak we shouldn't be afraid to play a bigger pot against them. Are they aggressive pre flop... the more aggressive they are pre then the less likely I would be to raise and more likely be to flat and then anticipate them raising and then from there I could re raise them with larger hands. I obviously wouldn't be flatting in those spots if it was a junk hand I would just be folding. How do they play post flop... if they are a player that has a higher fold to c bet% then we should be raising more pre and then firing flop.

I don't think there should ever be a % answer to this question. Your opening frequency from the SB should be based on who is in the BB and how they play. We don't play poker with a blindfold on. We should be able to see what our opponents do well and what they dont do well and try to taylor our game to exploit their weaknesses.

 

[JetmirDulja]

its not only SB i raise in all positions to put presure... and get free chips

 

[Samweis3]

its not only SB i raise in all positions to put presure... and get free chips

I hope not with any two cards, otherwise you will be broken within no time.

In general we should raise pretty much as 65% of the range. You just need to be prepared to fold Postflop with bottom pairs etc. if you know that you are a calling station, but cannot change for any reason, you should tighten up your opening range.

 

[blueskies]

Depends on who is on your left. Sooner or later a decent player will adjust and exploit your over raise tendencies while you are OOP. Remember if it goes to a flop, you are always OOP. You got yourself in that situation by trying to steal one big blind.

 

[ninocabral]

I always try to price SB against BB, even more so if I have a lot of chips

 

[SpanRmonka]

I'm not sure of my range exactly, but I wanted to add a point of discussion.

Lets say we are raising whatever % of hands. For the sake of argument we could say 45%.

Do we expand or tighten our range based on previous actions? For example, it folded round to us in sb last orbit and we raised and stole succesfully. Do we now think Villain is more or less likely to call our steal if we do it again? I often like to over fold early in an, especially turbo, MTT vs BB, so then, hopefully get a few more steals through later when the blinds are more worth it?
Thoughts?
I don't really play cash, and I've just remembered you are more of a cash player, checked which forum this is in and its the cash games one!
Ah well, maybe my point is still relevant or maybe it even highlight a difference between cash and MTT strat?

 

[odonob]

I don’t go by any of these formulae. I read the table and play on that basis. All this 3x, big blind etc etc theory I think is pretty much useless in a real life situation. I have won tons of MTTs btw.

 

[LUKADONCICMVP]

it´s all depends on the villains like i use to say, there more nit they are the light i raise

 

[makisaa]

It is a difficult position, so I usually play the strong cards, or when the momentum allows it.