Fold to a river jam

  • Thread starter FlopStraightAndFlush
  • Start date
F

FlopStraightAndFlush

Rising Star
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Total posts
4
Hi everyone, I made a nit fold on the river, this was a 2NL hand, what are your thoughts on check folding the river?


CO: $2.25 (112.5 bb)
BTN: $2.07 (103.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $2.05 (102.5 bb)


Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has :7s4: :as4:
2 folds, CO raises to $0.04, BTN calls $0.04, fold, Hero calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.13, 3 players) :4s4: :ad4: :6s4:
Hero checks, CO bets $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, CO calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.61, 2 players) :5c4:
Hero bets $0.45, CO calls $0.45

River: ($1.51, 2 players) :kd4:
Hero checks, CO bets $1.52 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $1.51 pot ($0.05 rake)
Final Board: :4s4: :ad4: :6s4: :5c4: :kd4:

CO wins $1.44
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Visionary
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
834
Blind defense MWP

Hi everyone, I made a nit fold on the river, this was a 2NL hand, what are your thoughts on check folding the river?


CO: $2.25 (112.5 bb)
BTN: $2.07 (103.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $2.05 (102.5 bb)


Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has :7s4: :as4:
2 folds, CO raises to $0.04, BTN calls $0.04, fold, Hero calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.13, 3 players) :4s4: :ad4: :6s4:
Hero checks, CO bets $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, CO calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.61, 2 players) :5c4:
Hero bets $0.45, CO calls $0.45

River: ($1.51, 2 players) :kd4:
Hero checks, CO bets $1.52 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $1.51 pot ($0.05 rake)
Final Board: :4s4: :ad4: :6s4: :5c4: :kd4:

CO wins $1.44

Hi there FlopStraightAndFlush good evening, how you doing? Thank you very much for sharing your hand with the CardsChat community!

The flop is missing one card okay? Before thinking the river action, think about your preflop action:
I don't love calling too much from the Big Blind with dominated aces. (I don't love calling from the BB with almost anything). In a scenario like this, if I call, I am just calling to flop a monster: a flush, two pair, a trips, etc. We are not going to flop monsters many times, so I believe that versus CO opener and BTN caller it is a very easy Squeeze or Fold scenario. As it was a mini-raise you can make your Squeeze something like 4x or 4.5x.
By Squeezing CO and BTN here with a very strong hand (A7s) you can win the pot in two ways:

1) Preflop: Everybody folds and you collect the dead money, which is lovely and awesome! :love:

2) Postflop: You can represent a stronger range such as AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, even AA, KK, all the pocket pairs, etc sometimes, because when villain in position calls it will almost never have these combos, so by 3betting preflop we take more initiative to steal the pot postflop because we can represent a stronger range.
In the flop you had the flush nuts or the flush-draw? (The flop is missing one card)

A) If you had the flush-draw this is a very weak raise. We are not raising 100% of our flush-draws or we are busted! It will become very easy to bluff us everytime we miss turn and river, and when we hit we will (almost) never be paid.

B) If you had the flush nuts it is a weak raise. If you flop a flush nuts in a situation with a monotone flop and check-raise flop, you gotta be very sure that Villain is gonna call you with worse flushes, straights, sets or whatever. Otherwise you are turning the nuts into a bluff.

In the turn you cannot represent anything right now. If you have a set and double barrels turns you will make all the flush draws, straight draws, gutters, and a lot of pairs fold, they should not continue here. When you bet you still have the missed flush draw in your range, that missed and decided to bluff any turn, which makes the call easy for CO's Villain.

In the river you check and you don't have many strongs hands right now. Your sets could be checking turn, your two pair also, you don't have AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ because you would have made a 3bet preflop most of times, and it's nasty. I like to check this river when I have a very strong value hand and I know Villain will bluff me because of the missing draws and then I would have either an easy call or an easy raise.
The way you started the story was strange. IMO, if you should bet river again, trying to represent a set or two pair, but even so it is very strange.
 
M

maxi_j

Rock Star
Joined
May 6, 2019
Total posts
230
Don`t see huge mistakes.
Call preflop is fine. You have made hand you don`t need to semi bluff. I prefer to call on flop and turn.

You line vs passive player is also an option.
 
S

StepUp

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 11, 2020
Total posts
35
Hi there FlopStraightAndFlush good evening, how you doing? Thank you very much for sharing your hand with the CardsChat community!

The flop is missing one card okay? Before thinking the river action, think about your preflop action:
I don't love calling too much from the Big Blind with dominated aces. (I don't love calling from the BB with almost anything). In a scenario like this, if I call, I am just calling to flop a monster: a flush, two pair, a trips, etc. We are not going to flop monsters many times, so I believe that versus CO opener and BTN caller it is a very easy Squeeze or Fold scenario. As it was a mini-raise you can make your Squeeze something like 4x or 4.5x.
By Squeezing CO and BTN here with a very strong hand (A7s) you can win the pot in two ways:

1) Preflop: Everybody folds and you collect the dead money, which is lovely and awesome! :love:

2) Postflop: You can represent a stronger range such as AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, even AA, KK, all the pocket pairs, etc sometimes, because when villain in position calls it will almost never have these combos, so by 3betting preflop we take more initiative to steal the pot postflop because we can represent a stronger range.
In the flop you had the flush nuts or the flush-draw? (The flop is missing one card)

A) If you had the flush-draw this is a very weak raise. We are not raising 100% of our flush-draws or we are busted! It will become very easy to bluff us everytime we miss turn and river, and when we hit we will (almost) never be paid.

B) If you had the flush nuts it is a weak raise. If you flop a flush nuts in a situation with a monotone flop and check-raise flop, you gotta be very sure that Villain is gonna call you with worse flushes, straights, sets or whatever. Otherwise you are turning the nuts into a bluff.

In the turn you cannot represent anything right now. If you have a set and double barrels turns you will make all the flush draws, straight draws, gutters, and a lot of pairs fold, they should not continue here. When you bet you still have the missed flush draw in your range, that missed and decided to bluff any turn, which makes the call easy for CO's Villain.

In the river you check and you don't have many strongs hands right now. Your sets could be checking turn, your two pair also, you don't have AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ because you would have made a 3bet preflop most of times, and it's nasty. I like to check this river when I have a very strong value hand and I know Villain will bluff me because of the missing draws and then I would have either an easy call or an easy raise.
The way you started the story was strange. IMO, if you should bet river again, trying to represent a set or two pair, but even so it is very strange.



Very instructive and deep thought process can't add any thoughts here just Bravo
 
F

FlopStraightAndFlush

Rising Star
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Total posts
4
Hi there FlopStraightAndFlush good evening, how you doing? Thank you very much for sharing your hand with the CardsChat community!

The flop is missing one card okay? Before thinking the river action, think about your preflop action:
I don't love calling too much from the Big Blind with dominated aces. (I don't love calling from the BB with almost anything). In a scenario like this, if I call, I am just calling to flop a monster: a flush, two pair, a trips, etc. We are not going to flop monsters many times, so I believe that versus CO opener and BTN caller it is a very easy Squeeze or Fold scenario. As it was a mini-raise you can make your Squeeze something like 4x or 4.5x.
By Squeezing CO and BTN here with a very strong hand (A7s) you can win the pot in two ways:

1) Preflop: Everybody folds and you collect the dead money, which is lovely and awesome! :love:

2) Postflop: You can represent a stronger range such as AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, even AA, KK, all the pocket pairs, etc sometimes, because when villain in position calls it will almost never have these combos, so by 3betting preflop we take more initiative to steal the pot postflop because we can represent a stronger range.
In the flop you had the flush nuts or the flush-draw? (The flop is missing one card)

A) If you had the flush-draw this is a very weak raise. We are not raising 100% of our flush-draws or we are busted! It will become very easy to bluff us everytime we miss turn and river, and when we hit we will (almost) never be paid.

B) If you had the flush nuts it is a weak raise. If you flop a flush nuts in a situation with a monotone flop and check-raise flop, you gotta be very sure that Villain is gonna call you with worse flushes, straights, sets or whatever. Otherwise you are turning the nuts into a bluff.

In the turn you cannot represent anything right now. If you have a set and double barrels turns you will make all the flush draws, straight draws, gutters, and a lot of pairs fold, they should not continue here. When you bet you still have the missed flush draw in your range, that missed and decided to bluff any turn, which makes the call easy for CO's Villain.

In the river you check and you don't have many strongs hands right now. Your sets could be checking turn, your two pair also, you don't have AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ because you would have made a 3bet preflop most of times, and it's nasty. I like to check this river when I have a very strong value hand and I know Villain will bluff me because of the missing draws and then I would have either an easy call or an easy raise.
The way you started the story was strange. IMO, if you should bet river again, trying to represent a set or two pair, but even so it is very strange.


Thank you so much for the thorough analysis, I have learned a lot. that is a great strategy to implement.
 
F

FlopStraightAndFlush

Rising Star
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Total posts
4
Don`t see huge mistakes.
Call preflop is fine. You have made hand you don`t need to semi bluff. I prefer to call on flop and turn.

You line vs passive player is also an option.



Thank you mate. that particular session I was practicing check raising oop you are right it is not advised to do this line against an aggro player and that had didnt need pushing out that guy calling was more accurate play .At the time, I had 8 hands of his in my HM database but then after 100 hands he was a Loose aggro even calling multiple streets of big bets with A high 3 times, 1 time vs super tight player which got him stocked 1 buyin against that TP player. I think value betting ip is better line against these type of player.

cheers!
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Total posts
3,796
Awards
2
Hi everyone, I made a nit fold on the river, this was a 2NL hand, what are your thoughts on check folding the river?


CO: $2.25 (112.5 bb)
BTN: $2.07 (103.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $2.05 (102.5 bb)


Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has :7s4: :as4:
2 folds, CO raises to $0.04, BTN calls $0.04, fold, Hero calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.13, 3 players) :4s4: :ad4: :6s4:
Hero checks, CO bets $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, CO calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.61, 2 players) :5c4:
Hero bets $0.45, CO calls $0.45

River: ($1.51, 2 players) :kd4:
Hero checks, CO bets $1.52 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results: $1.51 pot ($0.05 rake)
Final Board: :4s4: :ad4: :6s4: :5c4: :kd4:

CO wins $1.44


I don't hate the flat OOP preflop.

I like the check raise on the flop because this is the info that prompts you to fold on the river.

And, I think you need to fold on the river like you did.

He either has 2 pair on the flop with Ace-rag or straightens out.

Good luck !
 
F

FlopStraightAndFlush

Rising Star
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Total posts
4
I don't hate the flat OOP preflop.

I like the check raise on the flop because this is the info that prompts you to fold on the river.

And, I think you need to fold on the river like you did.

He either has 2 pair on the flop with Ace-rag or straightens out.

Good luck !


Thank you my friend.
exactly! and in addition to those hands you have mentioned, even some players would call those streets of big bets with KK simply because it is beautiful and they love it, so he might got his trips on the river. because if he had trips or bigger ace on the flop he would have re-raised me on the flop to charge me for my flush draw but then maybe he didnt buy my 64o reppin and wanted me to hang myself but all and all after reading your posts I really like the river fold now because we only beat KQ of spades and A2 A3 lose to whole alot of combos.
 
Last edited:
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Visionary
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
834
Very instructive and deep thought process can't add any thoughts here just Bravo

Hello StepUp, good evening, how do you do? Thank you a ton for your words it is very kind of you. Makes me feel very glad to hear these things, even knowing that I am just a simple student as yourself and many others here at CardsChat. :)
I also thanks a lot to CardsChat for providing this sui generis opportunity for those who are really interested in learning the game, like I, you and our community friends. Have a nice day! :D

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
Aballinamion

Aballinamion

Visionary
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Total posts
834
Thank you so much for the thorough analysis, I have learned a lot. that is a great strategy to implement.

Hi there FlopStraightAndFlush, good evening, how you doing? Very kind words you said, makes me feel very happy! Let's thank CardsChat community above all for providing for all of us such an amazing environment for learning! Hugs and all the best wishes!

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
TheDude6622

TheDude6622

Legend
Joined
Jul 30, 2018
Total posts
2,348
Awards
2
The way you played it was perfect. You got your money in when you had a TON of equity, and was able to get away from it when you missed. Yes you have an A, but so many hands are beating you here. Great fold and great play!
 
Folding in Poker
Top