nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
Progress report: I have fully embraced this approach and this is pure gold. It rarely goes beyond my raise. If it does, I'm still winning on the flop more than 60% of the time.
Thank you, WVH. Seems obvious but I was overlooking this aspect of my game. Impressive how one small change can be so significant.
nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
Working on avoiding that single pair showdown
Another lesson I'm having a harder time applying:
Especially when playing against loose/passive players, a single pair (or even a two-pair hand) is rarely good when these types of players make big river bets.
My lesson is that I have to learn to let go of marginal hands sooner. I seem to stick with them longer than I should.
An interesting graphic, which I think highlights this better than any hand history, shows my hands that I've gone to showdown with since October and how I've fared (I'm beta testing PokerTracker 4 and the chart is from that).
Another lesson I'm having a harder time applying:
Especially when playing against loose/passive players, a single pair (or even a two-pair hand) is rarely good when these types of players make big river bets.
My lesson is that I have to learn to let go of marginal hands sooner. I seem to stick with them longer than I should.
An interesting graphic, which I think highlights this better than any hand history, shows my hands that I've gone to showdown with since October and how I've fared (I'm beta testing PokerTracker 4 and the chart is from that).
Attachments
Arjonius
Legend
Silver Level
Along with looking at how to adjust your play to be more successful, it may be beneficial to work on the mental / emotional side of your game. For example, blackrain's style is more aggressive than yours. Some people can adapt in this regard more easily than others. I'm talking not just about being more aggressive but also about requiring less time to reach a decent comfort level being more aggressive than before.
I found it worked better for me to focus on ramping up my aggression in one or two situations at a time, not across the board. BB vs limp from the SB is a good example that you seem to be working on. Another one that can come up relatively often and thus may be worth prioritizing is isolating limpers.
I found it worked better for me to focus on ramping up my aggression in one or two situations at a time, not across the board. BB vs limp from the SB is a good example that you seem to be working on. Another one that can come up relatively often and thus may be worth prioritizing is isolating limpers.
P
PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
I was looking at your two pair hands, is it possible to seperate pocket pair with paired board, board pairing both hole cards and 1 card in the hole paired with a paired board in PT4? I am betting that one of each hole card pairing is winning far more than the other combos in which you are losing to trips or better.
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WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
You can do this by adding a starting hands filter. Just look at hands where you started with a pocket pair and the final result was 2 pair. Subtract that from the number listed above to get the figure for making 2 pair with unpaired starters.
C
Carmine
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I'm thinking your sample size is a little too small..50,000 hands is generally considered a starting point and most coaches would like to see 100,000 hands to truly give you the best assessment. I am not the guy who is qualified to review your stats. I submitted a hand history that was a little over 100,000 hands to Poker Table Ratings and they gave me an A-, I was pysched...I than submitted all that to a coach at DragTheBar and was told that my grade was a too high and told me why, he than dissected my all my stats and gave me a clear picture of what I needed to do and what my grade really was..I was less pysched but I had good info on which to improve my game. The thing is everybody will try to give you good info, some will give you great info and some will not. You are serious about improving no doubt about and this site is terrific but seek out the help of a professional coach and that will give you the best assessment and a solid pathway to improving...good luck.
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Deco
Legend
Silver Level
There is only so much we can tell from stats. Posting hands for analysis would be of good use. Try not to just pick big hands you lost.
What little I can see from the stats is overall they're pretty solid.
The Vpip/PFR gap icould do with closing. Flat a little less. I honestly think you can crush 4NL flatting no worse than KQ/AQ/AJ/22+. It's an extreme example but I feel most players would benefit from it rather than calling with Axs or any SC from the button or CO.
I would also reduce your SB stealing range in favour of increasing your button and CO steals. You should also be looking to raise your stealing in total.
Your fold to c-bet is a little low, there are many excusable reasons for this but none of which are really necessary for 4NL. It's likely these marginal hands causing this.
All of this other than the blind advise and large vpip/pfr is guesswork at likely errors. Post hands or focus on individual elements of your game in strategy threads. i.e your 3bet ranges or a hand were your decision to call the flop was borderline for you, was it considered border line by other players? Alter your calling range based on the consensus of the players you trust.
What little I can see from the stats is overall they're pretty solid.
The Vpip/PFR gap icould do with closing. Flat a little less. I honestly think you can crush 4NL flatting no worse than KQ/AQ/AJ/22+. It's an extreme example but I feel most players would benefit from it rather than calling with Axs or any SC from the button or CO.
I would also reduce your SB stealing range in favour of increasing your button and CO steals. You should also be looking to raise your stealing in total.
Your fold to c-bet is a little low, there are many excusable reasons for this but none of which are really necessary for 4NL. It's likely these marginal hands causing this.
All of this other than the blind advise and large vpip/pfr is guesswork at likely errors. Post hands or focus on individual elements of your game in strategy threads. i.e your 3bet ranges or a hand were your decision to call the flop was borderline for you, was it considered border line by other players? Alter your calling range based on the consensus of the players you trust.
nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
Thanks for the thoughtful response, Deco. I've been taking notes on various concepts so that I could post some concept threads here. Takes me a little while since I don't have that many hours per week to devote to poker.
I really appreciate the feedback I'm getting, I do seriously take advice from players I trust/respect, and I will be posting more to get some discussions started that will hopefully help other players as well as myself.
Hoping to post something with substance this weekend.
nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
Sorry if it is bad form to resurrect an old post, but I do want to keep on sharing my poker progress.
First off, much thanks to dooydoo for coaching a session with me. He was very kind and helpful, despite technical problems in communicating during the session!
So what's been going on lately?
I got a month's free sub to Drag The Bar as part of my last CC league winnings, and have watched a lot of the videos there (by the way, I think that Natalie Ratchford, aka Turkey Brain, is really a great teacher).
I moved up to 10NL, and play there regularly at Carbon. My original $100 deposit got up to over $600, I withdrew $300, dabbled in 25NL, and then doubled it again to $715. I just withdrew another $300.
I'm rereading Crushing the Microstakes (BlackRain79 is really brilliant) and have also been reviewing Verneer threads (from another forum
) in a PDF of threads of his (I have no idea where I got it ) called Moving Through uNL 2010.
Sounds good, but there are some big holes! A lot of my winnings were from playing well in $10 and $20 DoNs and from having a rakeback deal.
My cash play isn't doing so well (in part to overdabbling at 25NL).
So I'm back at 10NL, and trying to work on some big leaks like:
knowing when to 3bet vs call
optimal bet sizing
avoiding the spazz moments when I get into the whole "I have a good hand and I deserve to win this pot and even though villain is acting like he has a huge hand he's just bluffing and I'll prove it by playing back at him and getting him off the hand and OMG he really had the straight"
So basically, I keep feeling like I'm trying to learn how to play the game of poker!
Sorry that this is already tl;dr but one more thing I'm thinking about:
what kinds of posts could I contribute to CC that would be meaningful to other new players? I'm nearing the 1,000 post mark and wish I had a way to make a good contribution to the learning of our forum. Not so sure how...
First off, much thanks to dooydoo for coaching a session with me. He was very kind and helpful, despite technical problems in communicating during the session!
So what's been going on lately?
I got a month's free sub to Drag The Bar as part of my last CC league winnings, and have watched a lot of the videos there (by the way, I think that Natalie Ratchford, aka Turkey Brain, is really a great teacher).
I moved up to 10NL, and play there regularly at Carbon. My original $100 deposit got up to over $600, I withdrew $300, dabbled in 25NL, and then doubled it again to $715. I just withdrew another $300.
I'm rereading Crushing the Microstakes (BlackRain79 is really brilliant) and have also been reviewing Verneer threads (from another forum
) in a PDF of threads of his (I have no idea where I got it ) called Moving Through uNL 2010. Sounds good, but there are some big holes! A lot of my winnings were from playing well in $10 and $20 DoNs and from having a rakeback deal.
My cash play isn't doing so well (in part to overdabbling at 25NL).
So I'm back at 10NL, and trying to work on some big leaks like:
knowing when to 3bet vs call
optimal bet sizing
avoiding the spazz moments when I get into the whole "I have a good hand and I deserve to win this pot and even though villain is acting like he has a huge hand he's just bluffing and I'll prove it by playing back at him and getting him off the hand and OMG he really had the straight"
So basically, I keep feeling like I'm trying to learn how to play the game of poker!
Sorry that this is already tl;dr but one more thing I'm thinking about:
what kinds of posts could I contribute to CC that would be meaningful to other new players? I'm nearing the 1,000 post mark and wish I had a way to make a good contribution to the learning of our forum. Not so sure how...
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Wow. Very nice offer. Make sure you take him up on this Deb. In case you don't know this is John A: http://pokerzion.com/poker coach_John.htm
nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
Immediate goal is to turn this from break even to winning (March-May at 10NL):
I think the question I'll be asking John A is: When you want to improve your game and you have a basic understanding (which probably includes a good set of bad habits that need to be unlearned)--where do you start?
For comparison (and since I mentioned it yesterday), here's the same time period with the BR support I've had from the DoNs I played:
I think the question I'll be asking John A is: When you want to improve your game and you have a basic understanding (which probably includes a good set of bad habits that need to be unlearned)--where do you start?
For comparison (and since I mentioned it yesterday), here's the same time period with the BR support I've had from the DoNs I played:
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nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
I'm combining my 2-week vacation with a renewed focus on improving my cash game. Since June 1st, I've played about 10,000 hands. This is about evenly split between 10NL and 25NL (6-max). It's a short timeframe and small sample size, but I'm now on an upswing. Still not sure if this is better focus and playing better, or getting lucky (and thinking it's probably the latter!).
I haven't had a chance yet to have a quick session that John A. from Poker Zion offered, but hoping to get that covered this next week or two as well.
Immediate Goals:
Post hand histories every day on CC, at least while I'm on vacation!
Review my hands played every other day.
Read other hand histories posted on CC and try to learn from them!
Below: My graph and stats for June.
I haven't had a chance yet to have a quick session that John A. from Poker Zion offered, but hoping to get that covered this next week or two as well.
Immediate Goals:
Post hand histories every day on CC, at least while I'm on vacation!
Review my hands played every other day.
Read other hand histories posted on CC and try to learn from them!
Below: My graph and stats for June.
nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
acky100
Legend
Silver Level
EDIT: wow i just replied to the first page!! a lot has changed, ignore what is irrelevent! my bad.
How is it going now? If you're still playing around 19 vpip and somewhere between 15-17 pfr, then i really like that. Some of the best 6max players play tight like this, there is all too much dick waving amongst 6maxxers, and probably came from 2p2 where its apparently a leak to not be playing 24/22 bla bla bla, this is just bullshit really.
How many hands have you got in your sample now? Your fold to c-bet stats seem pretty low on the flop and turn, maybe you are calling too much there and giving up on too many rivers? Where perhaps you should of just folded earlier on in the hand. Again we will be able to tell more with bigger samples and posting hands.
Not gonna get into a big debate on blind play, because generally playing tight in the small blind will be a good strategy and will definitely work. One thing i will say is the blinds are very situational, I actually play looser in the small blind than any other position and last time i checked over 130k hands i was actually showing a profit in the small blind, so theres obviously many ways to skin a cat!
-don't loosen up for the sake of silly poker mantras
-don't treat the blinds as a set entity, play the opponent to your left.
-post some hands edit: you did, i will keep following this thread.
How is it going now? If you're still playing around 19 vpip and somewhere between 15-17 pfr, then i really like that. Some of the best 6max players play tight like this, there is all too much dick waving amongst 6maxxers, and probably came from 2p2 where its apparently a leak to not be playing 24/22 bla bla bla, this is just bullshit really.
How many hands have you got in your sample now? Your fold to c-bet stats seem pretty low on the flop and turn, maybe you are calling too much there and giving up on too many rivers? Where perhaps you should of just folded earlier on in the hand. Again we will be able to tell more with bigger samples and posting hands.
Not gonna get into a big debate on blind play, because generally playing tight in the small blind will be a good strategy and will definitely work. One thing i will say is the blinds are very situational, I actually play looser in the small blind than any other position and last time i checked over 130k hands i was actually showing a profit in the small blind, so theres obviously many ways to skin a cat!
-don't loosen up for the sake of silly poker mantras
-don't treat the blinds as a set entity, play the opponent to your left.
-post some hands
edit: you did, i will keep following this thread.
acky100
Legend
Silver Level
Most of junes numbers look pretty fine, it looks like you're calling too many 3bets though, you call 30% of 3bets when on the button, what is your raised first in on the button? I'd guess it's around 40-50% which means you're calling 3bets from the button with around 15% of hands, this seems quite high, just something to think about. Make sure you're pretty much never calling 3bets when OOP especially, that's a very easy way to spew money.
nabmom
Community Guide
Community Guide
Hi Deco,
I've actually been working on my 3-betting and trying to find the sweet spot for it at the micro stakes level I play. When I'm at a good table with a tight player to my left, I often treat the CO like a BTN since the real BTN folds so much.
My fold to 3bet is 70% and that might be too low. I have a pretty bad habit of calling 3bets OOP with speculative hands. A quick look at my stats show that I'm leaking $ when I 3bet from OOP but am making $$ 3-betting from the BTN.
Steal stats over the past month are:
BTN: 38%
CO: 22%
SB: 40%
I will often attempt a steal when the Fold to Steal stats of the other person are 80% or higher.
Deco
Legend
Silver Level
Steal more on the button, maybe a little less from the SB but mostly more form the button. Your button steal% should be the highest.
Your F3B isn't as bad as I thought it would be given your KJ call. Bare in mind 3bets vs non-steals should be given much more respect and assume tight ranges when the information isn't available. As for calling 3bets OOP. It's the micros people won't exploit you for flatting next to nothing OOP to 3bets because it's never going to make us much money. I call a 3bet OOP very very rarely I'd much rather 4bet bluff than play a 3bet pot without the initiative with a very readable range OOP vs a polarized range. At the micros just folding is the right thing to do most the time with non-powerhouses.
I wouldn't look in to how much money your making from certain positions too closely if your just using that 10K hand sample. Wait till you have 100K.