Change bet sizing when villains have a flush draw?

[Aces2w1n]

If you put your opponent on a flush draw successfully... If you bet like you normally do on the flop the secret is the turn.

If you can reraise the turn or shove in some instances you will get bad players calling and at the sametime you'll protect your hand as well.

But sometimes that's not the best situation. Though less stressful ... if you don't play the turn ultra aggressive, people will shove or bet into you bluffing with air and u get more value that way on the river.

 

[vinylspiros]

If you are OOP and the guy is "ATCs" player who chases flushes, then you can fire overbets with impunity (125-150% of pot). On river either bet small and fold to raise or chkfold every time the original FD (from the flop) hits and you are golden.

As for folding out his minor stuff:
1) less worries about random 2P hands
2) these hands don't pay that much
3) you get to know EXACTLY what remained in his range

Basically after he pays 2 massive overbets, most of the time you already won more money by the river than he can recover when he hits.

It flush arrives on the turn, even better for you. Chkfold and be done with an overpair, chkcall and see if you hit FH with a set/2P.

Oh BTW, if he missed the draw then chk river for more goodness 'cause some of them shove the rest of their stack as a bluff

Extra special goodness when he hits his flush and you hit your full house, always good for a laugh.

LD, i love reading your posts bro. You got a very coherent thought process which i think is A-class.

^^^but seriously though, why would we ever be betting over bets into someone chasing a FD? Like sure some of the ATCs players love to chase ,but by betting so big, i believe it will make even the biggest chasers fold so we might lose value instead of gain. Also just the fact that we are not certain whether he is on a FD or 2p/set type of hand makes it sound like an overall questionable size unless we only do it some of the times to mix it up.

 

[el_magiciann]

Nice thread, I just read it and I found it very helpful, good advice and information for me.and a lot others I think!

 

[LD1977]

Vinyl, it is a matter of fish psychology. ATCs players are really paranoid about flushes so they are extremely unwilling to sit there and just call with 2P+ with FD on board.

If they call the bombs, they have a flush draw.
If they raise, they have 2P+.
If they fold, they fold, but there wasn't much money to be made anyway unless they hit random 2P on the turn.

Easy game.

 

[vinylspiros]

Vinyl, it is a matter of fish psychology. ATCs players are really paranoid about flushes so they are extremely unwilling to sit there and just call with 2P+ with FD on board.

If they call the bombs, they have a flush draw.
If they raise, they have 2P+.
If they fold, they fold, but there wasn't much money to be made anyway unless they hit random 2P on the turn.

Easy game.

fair enough man. This tactic obviously requires to be tailored according to villains style but overall i agree.

 

[Arjonius]

It's the players I have no history on, always new, some ratholers, some who just leave after a big win to empty their stack and start over at another table. If players are coming and going all the time, usually there is no next time, I might never see them again.

When an unknown opens one of the first hands he sees, do you assume his range is ATC, or that he's likely to have something decent. If the latter, you're making a read - not much of one, but a read nonetheless.

 

[LD1977]

Yes it has to be a known type, passive (doesn't raise FDs) ATCs fish. Any passive fish is decent but it is more risky.

 

[jj20002]

i've seen a lot of people that checks after flop and if any bet they raise or shove with draw flush (and sometimes draw straight and time to time with one-leg-straight!!!), and there are people who after they see the flop with the draw they donkbet or shove right away, and see others doing that not in the flop but after the turn with only the draw and against more than one player,

actually i've seen people overplaying cards like AK or AQ and when they see the flop and don't hit, they don't matter, they just shove or reraise, that is so commom that it looks like an standard play at least at the micros,

and indeed, they are rewarded time to time and that's the reason they keep doing it,

 

[nykaktak]

I somehow got into a set on the flop with a hand 88,on the Board fell 8d 4s Js I put half my Bank rate equaled the turn was the 2d ,I placed a bet to the size of the Bank,was called , the river fell Ac and he bet 5bb I did a re-raise, he has called me and opened As2s ,after the hand of his stack sovtel exactly 4 BB , and such players who call bets in the hope flush lot

 

[akaRobbo]

i've seen a lot of people that checks after flop and if any bet they raise or shove with draw flush (and sometimes draw straight and time to time with one-leg-straight!!!), and there are people who after they see the flop with the draw they donkbet or shove right away, and see others doing that not in the flop but after the turn with only the draw and against more than one player,

When fish donk bet theyre nearly always on a draw. Just today a fish donk bet into me on a flop of 3 clubs, I held AcJd and 3-bet shoved his short stack and he called me with a rag K, on a gutshot, he didn't even have a club in his hand.

Identifying and catagorising fish is so important, im still trying to get good at it and something im working hard on. You can get into pots with them where they're drawing semi-dead and still willing to put money in.