c-bet or no c-bet that is the question!

[Double-A]

852. Okay, I absolutely see what you're saying. When I have KK, I will bang back with authority. It's just that when I have AA or KK, and someone CALLS the c-bet, I am likely to WIN. When I bluff a c-bet, if they DO call with that K8, I will LOSE.

Winning or losing pots shouldn't be your focus. That's something you can't control. What you can control is getting your chips in when you're likely to win, protecting them when you're not, and giving yourself the best chance to win the pot.

You're LESS likely to win the pot when someone calls your c-bet. If your heads up on the flop and your opponent folds to your c-bet then you win 100% of the time. If they call then they still have a chance to win. Unless, they're drawing dead but then you weren't really c-betting anyway.

The intent of a c-bet is to win the pot when you miss or build the pot when you're ahead. Sometimes you won't know which intention you're accomplishing but either is better than the alternatives of: folding the best hand, failing to bet the best hand, or giving a free card.

So I guess this question could be carried a step further...

The question can be carried a lot further but looking to apply generalized concepts to increasingly specific situations will only get confusing. You should try posting specific c-betting situations that stumped you and let some more experienced CC'ers help out.

 

[p0cketAz]

to c-bet varies... depending on the table style... and your stack... alot of mitigating factors influence my c-bet... one thing about it is that its a good way to judge where you stand in the hand against other players and a min bet ill find out the same as a 1/3 or 1/4 pot bet

 

[jtberrym]

C-bet

I do this often in tournament play but there are alot of factors to consider. Your position, how much you raised before the flop, the flop itself, type of player(s) who called your raise, and stage of tournament you are in. The situation I would like to elaborate on is when you raise against an aggressive player or a player with a huge chipstack who just flat calls, raise after raise to see a flop. When the flop comes against these players and I hit it then I will check to see what they want to bet out. Then I will either smooth call or re-raise depending on how confident I am with the board (flush or str8 draws will usually deter me from betting to aggressively). Then if the turn doesnt help the str8 or flush oppurtunity then I will make the move all in on the turn.

 

[Divebitch]

You're LESS likely to win the pot when someone calls your c-bet. If your heads up on the flop and your opponent folds to your c-bet then you win 100% of the time. If they call then they still have a chance to win.

The intent of a c-bet is to win the pot when you miss or build the pot when you're ahead. Sometimes you won't know which intention you're accomplishing but either is better than the alternatives of: folding the best hand, failing to bet the best hand, or giving a free card.


The question can be carried a lot further but looking to apply generalized concepts to increasingly specific situations will only get confusing. You should try posting specific c-betting situations that stumped you and let some more experienced CC'ers help out.

All understood. And thanks much for the help. It still won't come natural to me, but I will start trying it more frequently. Don't get me wrong. I have often c-betted when I don't hit, with mixed results. I hold my breath, and let out that sign of relief when they fold - and almost a sigh of relief when someone bets out, so I can fold and not have to face the c-bet decision. But you're right about the increasingly specific situations. The elements of any hand are always a little different (position, knowing your opponent(s), stack sizes, not to mention the cards themselves). So much so, you'll never get a definitive correct answer. But every bit of insight helps. Thanks again.

to c-bet varies... depending on the table style... and your stack... alot of mitigating factors influence my c-bet... one thing about it is that its a good way to judge where you stand in the hand against other players and a min bet ill find out the same as a 1/3 or 1/4 pot bet

To me, a min-raise is the same as a check. It tells me someone is almost trying to save face. OR... they hit and THEN some. Depends on the flop I guess. If, for instance, I PFR w/AQ, and a 852 hits, I'd rather come back with the same 3 or 4x BB raise and hope for the best. Then you'll really know where you stand. But agreed, a lot of mitigating factors.

 

[Divebitch]

I do this often in tournament play but there are alot of factors to consider. Your position, how much you raised before the flop, the flop itself, type of player(s) who called your raise, and stage of tournament you are in. The situation I would like to elaborate on is when you raise against an aggressive player or a player with a huge chipstack who just flat calls, raise after raise to see a flop. When the flop comes against these players and I hit it then I will check to see what they want to bet out. Then I will either smooth call or re-raise depending on how confident I am with the board (flush or str8 draws will usually deter me from betting to aggressively). Then if the turn doesnt help the str8 or flush oppurtunity then I will make the move all in on the turn.

All excellent points. The only thing I do differently though, is I'll raise a LOT more aggressively if the flop is wet (is that the correct term? I mean str8 or flush possibility), and pray the scare card doesn't come. If the flop brings 3 of a suit, and I don't have a big one, I'll lay it down in an instant. No point in raising, as anyone with an A or K or even Q will call.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Fulltilt Tip #161 by Jon Turner might help some out here. Some decent info. in it.

Personally, I'll occassionally check when I do hit the flop, to induce my opponent to lead out or to disguise my hand on the turn (ie. I might get a guy with a med. pkt. pr. to lead out, etc.).
I try to vary it up a bit and always taking into consideration - - 'my opponent'. I'll c-bet about 65% of the time (but also varies dependent upon situation). And c-bet will vary depending upon texture of the board (and my opponent.. again). I'll try to keep my c-bets the same as when I do hit the board 1/2 to 3/4 pot, usually closer to the 1/2 range,... and I'm betting out similiarly when I've flopped that set after 'raising' preflop with a med. pr., or low pkt. pr. (yah... I don't limp in if I'm first into the pot preflp with med. to low prs., I'm raising in an effort to disguise my hand so that I can represent that Ace or King on the flop when I c-bet and also so that I can really get paid off when I do come out betting with a set and someone else has hit the Ace, etc., etc.).
Good question though,... I see alot of stuff on the tables with this that I consider a mistake (ie. min bets on the flop???... and the all too common donk auto-pot bet steal attempt,.... is he really going to always bet pot when he hits the flop hard,... I doubt it, he wants a shittier hand to call).
Not sure if it's okay to post a tip by an online pro here (if it's got quotes?),... if so I'll copy/paste a couple here later.
GL all!!