bluffing

Alon Ipser

Alon Ipser

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The following is just a hypothetical hand just to get an idea on whether a bluff would be a good play under the circumstances. I am playing at a $1/$2, 10 chair, NL table. It doesn't matter what I have because I am not going to even get close to hitting it with the flop. I am UTG and raise to $5 which is pretty typical for the way I have been playing since I sat down. UTG+1 calls and the button calls. Everyone else folds. The flop comes with junk, lets say 2c,5d,10s. UTG+1 has been playing pretty tight so I assume the flop doesn't do anything for him. The button has also been tight but I suspect he has been stealing a few from position. Isn't this an ideal place for me to bluff and represent the flop? If so, how much do I bet so my bet doesn't scream bluff?
 
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colin_147

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Nice post Alon. I dont pay NL much so I am sure there are players here better equiped to answer this question. However, I make the pot $18 from your post and would definitely consider a pot sized raise in order to take down the pot. These guys are probably an ok standard to be playing at this limit so if you have been raising half the pot etc during the night then obviously you dont wanna go way over the top. But your preflop raise prob puts you on a high PP so unless they hold A10 or 2 pair I would imagine a pot sized raise would get them out

But you gotta worry they may have a PP to call the preflop raise in the 1st place.

For me, make a small'ish raise, see if I get a raise/call and this will tell me where I am in the pot
 
Tammy

Tammy

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I don't think it's ever a good time to bluff if you are first to act. Especially if two players after you called your pre-flop raise, and are tight players to boot! The only time I might try it is if I was confident in my table image...but even then, I don't think it would be a good idea.
 
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xdmanx007

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Bluff or not to bluff. Totally depends on your opponents. Generaly in online ring play bluffing is not a good play simply because you are very likely to get called with bottom pair or some nonsense. 2 reasons you get called are 1)Your opponent is nothing more than a really bad player 2)A lot of newbs think everybody is trying to bluff them. The situation you describe theoretically would be a good spot but you MUST factor in your opponent.
 
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chicubs1616

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Although both of your opponents may have missed with hands like AK, KQ, etc. I still don't like a continuation bet here...(a continuation bet is what a typical bet on the flop to pick up the pot is called). One of your opponents might have a hand like K-10 or A-10 or a pair like JJ or QQ.

If this pot is heads-up and you act after your opponent, I like a bet to pick up the pot more.
 
twizzybop

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I'd bluff at the pot.. you've allready made a good size bet pre-flop. Now you have to represent that the flop has hit you or you have a great starting pre-flop hand. If either opponent has also a strong pre-flop hand, yes they may call. Then again they might fold..

But since hypothetically you are betting here with whatever cards. Still represent the flop like you have a top 10 starting pre-flop hand. Find out where your opponents stand if they call,raise or fold. If you check, you have now given the button the opportunity to make a bet which you fold. If you bet you the button would have to think about calling or even raising. You want to be making the other opponents react, not you doing the reacting.
 
Tammy

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While I generally wouldn't bluff at all in this situation (like I said above), I do agree w/ twizzy in that once you decide to bluff, you need to commit to it. So yes, if you raised preflop, then you need to bet that flop hard to give the impression of a monster hand.
 
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chicubs1616

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Why commit more $ to a pot where you are out of position with two tight opponents behind you that might decide to call you down this hand? If you are attempting to bluff, you should NOT do it from early position!!!

This is a donkish play!!!
 
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xdmanx007

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Very sound advice from cubbies as usual. You also need to seriously consider your opponents generally bluffing is not worth the risk against bad players you will get paid off hansomely with a legit hand later on.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

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chicubs1616 said:
Why commit more $ to a pot where you are out of position with two tight opponents behind you that might decide to call you down this hand? If you are attempting to bluff, you should NOT do it from early position!!!

This is a donkish play!!!

Why commit anyway? Defeats the purpose of the bluff, however a bluff would also make someone in this position unpredictable.The original quote "It doesn't matter what I have because I am not going to even get close to hitting it with the flop". Why constantly bet 3-4X the BB with premium hands?? Eventually people will say he only bets 3-4X the BB with premium hands. Time to mix it up with a whatever hand.
So even pocket 9's with a 10 showing in this scenario looks darn good.

This is the time for the information bet. 2 tight players, so they are just as predictable. I would definatly put 1 of those tight players on a premium pocket pair. Then again one might have A,K and the other A,Q. By betting you are finding out this information if they call or raise. Being a donkey cause you don't want to be predictable isn't a bad play especially going 3x-4X BB UTG with rags.
 
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