This is a discussion on Any reason for massive overshoving? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; I was in a hand today at $0.50/$1 NL and I saw a huge overshove, just wondering if you guys think there is ever a
I was in a hand today at $0.50/$1 NL and I saw a huge overshove, just wondering if you guys think there is ever a reason to make a move like this.
UTG limped, folded to button who raise 7x, 2 folds and UTG calls.
Flop comes 2,2,J
UTG checks, button shoves for about $140 into a $15 pot. UTG folds, of course.
I can't ever think of a reason to do this. Is this just a pure idiot play?
Yes it is very idiotic. The only thing the player is doing here is getting the pot to himself. But mathematically this is a catastrophy as you could make much smaller bet with as much effectivity. Basically there is much more to lose than to win and it is clearly a mistake.
Yes this is a horrible play. The only way to justify that move would be that he put his opponent on slow played pocket jacks(that's a once in a lifetime thing to see with the line he took preflop) and then have pocket 2's and then he has to make a 100% accurate read that his opponent has JJ. This is a horrible play. I would guess he had AKs and didn't know play it post flop and didn't want to get bet off it so he jammed. He would probably tell you he was setting up to take this line again and do the same things with the nuts and hope for someone to think he was bluffing again. The only problem with that is catching the nuts in a situation like this is extremely rare. So your hoping for a needle in a haystack. This is a bet, that the only time you get called, is when your beat. I'm noticing a lot of this jamming when only the nuts are going to call you. I've been opening up my call ranges on the players I see doing this and calling with mid pairs, or in this case I would've called him if I had J3o. Players who don't learn to play post flop are at a serious disadvantage.
Could be a micro stakes player that moved to 0.50/1 for a quick lucky profit. He probably thought of 2's as no threat cards and didn't put you in a JJ or even if he put you on JJ believed you wouldn't call such overbet fearing quads. For a player that plays micro stakes to win cents or a couple dollars playing for hours, he just made 15 dollars with just an overbet bluff. If he quickly left the table after that I tell you he left to try this trick at another table. I cant think of another reason for such a play.
Rainbow. What would you call this with? JJ of course. What about 2x? I think I'd have to call, with no read or history with the guy. What about slow played AA from UTG, still calling? I don't know, but I'd probably still say yes. What do you think?
I think there are lots of possible reasons for an overshove, it can be used to punish calling stations and it can be used to punish nits, it can be used in a gto application, and it can be used to make your opponent tilt. Just watch Isuldur1 he loves the overshove.
My guess is he is repping AA and regardless puts UTG as weak and able to fold an mid pair or less to massive pressure due to passive play oop. In this instance he could have anything from AK to 45.
Or he genuinely has a hand like QQ and is protecting from an A or a K.
Also could have 23s and is playing off a crazy image or j10s and is wanting them to think he is bluffing.
Overall, I am going with, he has a random hand such as K9o and is playing position only vs the limper UTG. He wants a fold pre but doesn't mind either way as it is a semi bluff. Post he just sees weak play, doesn't want to raise a little and be check raised, so forces villain to fold.
I've done this on PokerStars a few times lately, ordinarily when I've called a PFR and flopped, for example, a straight where I hold 89s and the flop is 5, 6, 7 with 2 suited cards (but not my suit).
I know that it's kinda stupid but I've done it out of frustration at constantly being outdrawn - a hand like this would normally see 3 suited cards and a pair by the time we get to the river, and my straight is now busted by someone who held AXs or a small pair that rivered a Full House. I end up kicking myself for not shoving them off the pot to begin with.
I'm also sure I've read somewhere that one of the Pros (Harrington?) in his book recommends shoving as soon as you have the Nuts, due to people's tendencies to call online.
Overshoving can be profitable on certain stakes and situations.
At this stakes and with the action you described this just sounds like a guy who is afraid of being put to any decision and just overjams.
You see these kind of plays a lot at lower stakes. Could also have been a misclick
Usually the trademark of a bad player. Sometimes they turn over a complete bluff, other times it's a huge hand. So they either take this line because they saw Tom Dwan do it on poker show rerun and think it's a good bluff spot OR as shanest said, they do it because they're afraid of decisions so just shove flops and turns to hope you fold and they win the pot. or you call the river and they've had the "better" hand hold up from the flop..I've seen players shove 100bb stacks into a 5bb pot before on the flop.
That said, it can very occasionally be a good play if you think your opponent will call a huge overbet come the river...
Patience and discipline are two skills you must master to succeed at poker long term.
Well, I think I find another good reason to do such a move. Its the only good reason to make bad plays. To deceive. Maybe he tried to establish a donkey/fish image so he can manipulate you when he have the nuts to call an overshove!
The only thing he is getting is the pot. I would caution that they actually have something but often in the overshove pot it's just hoping for you not to call. They have a good hand but not great. Otherwise if they had maybe pocket 22 in this hand then aren't they going to slow play and get all the money they can
That is not idiotic but beginner's play!
I am pretty sure that so many of you had pocket 88 or 99 or maybe 77.
The board was something like 22J or JJ2, same thing.
You know you have it, but have absolutely no idea what to do on the turn/river if a Q or K or an A comes... So you either bet, or re-raise your opponents which happens most of the time.
This shove is just a more extreme way of saying, i m scared of the turn card and just want to take the pot right here
I remember overshoving on the flop when I have massive draws. Like two over cards and flush draw. Or straight plus flush draw.
If I have a straight and there is flush draw out there I’m playing against I just pot bet it. It my opponent hits let it be.