When to fold?

Sammyv1

Sammyv1

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Apr 10, 2005
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This was the first time I was stacked in a long, long time! Where would of been the best place to get away from this?
pokerstars Game #8301615209: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/02/05 - 23:02:00 (ET)
Table 'Mette II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Peaduh ($50 in chips)
Seat 2: I.Dreamer.I ($47 in chips)
Seat 3: river~juggz ($22.05 in chips)
Seat 4: Sammyv1 ($53.25 in chips)
Seat 5: lovenlife81 ($50.40 in chips)
Seat 6: jtmorgan ($67.40 in chips)
Seat 7: Skleice ($33.55 in chips)
Seat 8: Paidtostunt ($62.10 in chips)
Seat 9: mcgow87 ($61.50 in chips)
jtmorgan: posts small blind $0.25
Skleice: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sammyv1 [Qd Qs]
Paidtostunt: folds
mcgow87: calls $0.50
Peaduh: folds
I.Dreamer.I: folds
river~juggz: calls $0.50
Sammyv1: raises $2 to $2.50
lovenlife81: folds
I.Dreamer.I said, "i think he hade nut flush draw or set"
jtmorgan: raises $6 to $8.50
Skleice: folds
mcgow87: folds
river~juggz: folds
I.Dreamer.I said, "of 8s"
Sammyv1: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [2c Th 2d]
jtmorgan: bets $13
Sammyv1: calls $13
*** TURN *** [2c Th 2d] [4s]
jtmorgan: bets $24
Sammyv1: raises $7.75 to $31.75 and is all-in
jtmorgan: calls $7.75
*** RIVER *** [2c Th 2d 4s] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
jtmorgan: shows [Ks Kd] (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
Sammyv1: shows [Qd Qs] (two pair, Queens and Deuces)
jtmorgan collected $105 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $108 | Rake $3
Board [2c Th 2d 4s 5d]
Seat 1: Peaduh folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: I.Dreamer.I folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: river~juggz folded before Flop
Seat 4: Sammyv1 showed [Qd Qs] and lost with two pair, Queens and Deuces
Seat 5: lovenlife81 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jtmorgan (small blind) showed [Ks Kd] and won ($105) with two pair, Kings and Deuces
Seat 7: Skleice (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Paidtostunt folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: mcgow87 folded before Flop
 
joosebuck

joosebuck

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Jan 14, 2006
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could raise again PF to see and let go there. once you call the flop you are near committed.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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I don't think I'm good enough to bin Queens on the flop, although I'd be quite wary of the possibility he has AA or KK from the pre-flop action. He's re-raising out of position, which gives away a very big hand. I'm not sure even AK re-raises normally from the blinds.

On the Turn... I'd be pretty sure I'm beat, fold it and re-load. You're basically hoping he turns over Jacks or maybe a bluff with AK.

It's also player-dependent - what's this guy's pre-flop raise %? How tight has he been playing? If he's a maniac, obviously give him no respect at all. If he's playing 5% of pots, you could probably get away from this pre-flop.
 
A

alan1983

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Dec 13, 2006
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641
I still would have difficulties folding, and i 99% wouldnt have folded, but i found a reraise to a big raise preflop in cash games almost always means AA. Which makes sense since no other hand would want to commit such money before seeing a flop
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Very very tricky hand, i could get away from this in the early stages of an MTT but given the preflop action i cant possibly see you getting away from this without some good reads. One exception, and that would be a min-re-raise pre-flop, which would induce a shove and a somewhat standard fold.

As regards the flop, hes showing no sign of slowing down, but there is a considerable amount in the pot as it stands, and based on your usual $50NL player youll see JJ just as often as KK/AA.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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As regards the flop, hes showing no sign of slowing down, but there is a considerable amount in the pot as it stands, and based on your usual $50NL player youll see JJ just as often as KK/AA.

Clearly AA and KK combined are twice as common than JJ. Given the pre-flop action, you'll see AA / KK more than twice as often. I'd also expect to see a bet closer to pot size with JJ since it doesn't want to be outdrawn, while AA/KK bet for value and want calls and will often bet closer to 1/2 - 2/3 pot.
 
D

Dingodaddy23

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Apr 20, 2006
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best spot to get away from this woulda been preflop. not saying thats what I would have done, but more often than not a re-raise at 50 NL = QQ+ or maybe AK. and since you have QQ its highly unlikely he has it too, so that means you're flipping against 1 hand in his range and crushed by the other 2. there's really no shame in folding preflop if a guy rarely re-raises and then all the sudden comes to life preflop.
 
Xife

Xife

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Without any reads at all I would probably fold this preflop... Might not be the right play but to me that raise screams kings or aces..
 
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