What is our move here ? Straight in position on tricky turn and river

J

jeffred1111

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Villain was pretty unknown but seemed like your ABC passive player. Didn't seem him do anything out of line but he plays loose from any position. What about my line ? Only thing I don't really like is the flop, but I feel raising here, when two people have called, makes us put a lot of money in the pot to isolate a flush draw that will still call us if there's any overlay (other str8 calling, two pairs, etc.) + a good portion of my out could be dirty (T gives higher straight, club gives flush, etc.). Check turn was for pot control and since we are closing the action, we could get a cheaper price at showdown if the flush really has hit (I have a reputation of being agressive and betting on the turn when checked to me).

What about river ? As played, what is our move there ? Can we call this ? Can we raise it ?

Site:
Pokerstars
Dealt to BTN:
:7h4:
:9c4:
Preflop:
- UTG calls [$0.25]
- MP calls [$0.25] Hero calls [$0.25]
- SB calls [$0.15]
- BB: checks
- Potsize: $1.25
Flop:
:8c4:
:6s4: :4c4:
- SB: checks
- BB: checks
- UTG bets [$1]
- MP calls [$1] Hero calls [$1]
- BB calls [$1]
- Folds: 1
- Potsize: $5.25
Turn:
:5c4:

- BB: checks
- UTG: checks
- MP: checks Hero: checks
- Potsize: $5.25
River:
:5h4:

- BB bets [$2]
All fold, Hero must make a decision : ???
 
tenbob

tenbob

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Easy call. The only control you need of the size of the pot on that turn is getting more into it :) Bet that turn.
 
dj11

dj11

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At least call, and a raise is not out of the question.

Remember you are up against the BB, who could have anything, including 73, and even if they were clubs, and he has his flush, he is gonna worry you have the bigger flush.
 
J

jeffred1111

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I think I'm missing on some value by not betting this turn, but at the same time, why bet it if I know I can't call a c/r and I can see 2 pairs/set c/r this. River is a definite call after checking the turn, but I don't see how we could raise since we are folding worse hands but never better hands.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I really don't like our position with 4 people still in the pot on the turn.
 
Y

young hova

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I'm kinda confused at your position in the hand but I assume your last to act by how you typed the hand and you said you had position.

I agree I think your losing value on the turn, but first, why not check raise the bet on the flop? You've got position with the nuts and you've got people betting into you. If their drawing you want to make them pay and a check raise seems to suit your image perfectly. There probably not gonna believe you have the nuts. In this situation if you feel your worried about the draw hitting I think you should check raise the flop a good value so that you can pot control on the next streets, with that being said I think you should check raise no less than 3.50 , and go all in to any resistance of course.

You check raise no less than 3.50 so that way you've got some value in the pot before you start worrying about pot control, because once pot control comes into play your probably gonna have to turn it down a notch, and plus if the flush didn't come on the turn you've got a juicy pot with nuts still. I would say at least 7 to 8 times out of 10 you check raise in position on the next street it will be checked to your action. The difference now is, on the river if a value bet is thrown, now when you call you win a much juicier pot, especially if numerous people call your check raise, and I guestimate that being about a 10-15, yeah you might lose this pot sometimes, but I think your going to win this pot more than you lose it in the long run and those extra dollars will matter.

Since you didnt check raise the flop, I think you should bet what you feel your hand is worth on the turn, and when I say that I don't mean a value bet, you bet the turn knowing that your more than likely only going to check call the river; this will help you get your last bit of value if you have the winning hand. You want to bet at least half the pot to I would say up to 3/4 to 4/5 of the pot. even though its a scary community I would want a call here. By betting this much some people will either put you on a stronger hand than you have such as the flush itself, or they will than check to you on the river thinking that your aggressive image is gonna make you bet on the river so they can check raise you.

By the river your probably just calling and if no bet is made I would lean towards a check slightly more than a value bet. If you haven't put out a raise or bet by the river than I think you just call. One, If you bet and they reraise you, won't know if they're playing your aggressive image and messing with you. Two, if you bet and they reraise they might reraise you so big it becomes more of a risk to call and if you decide to fold than you won't get the information you needed to see -- did he have it or not.


CHECK RAISE THAT FLOP THOUGH, that was a golden opportunity for you to boost that pot right then and there
 
Chevren

Chevren

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other str8 calling, two pairs, etc.) + a good portion of my out could be dirty (T gives higher straight, club gives flush, etc.).

I agree I think your losing value on the turn, but first, why not check raise the bet on the flop? You've got position with the nuts and you've got people betting into you.

Umm are we playing yahtzee or did someone go behind my back and change the damn rules of poker again!

The T should give us a straight and may produce a higher straight draw and the only straight I am seeing on the flop is 57 unless like I said 4 straights are good now and no one let me know...
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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you don't even have to be good quite 1/4 of the time for a call to be profitable. call, hope for a 7, just expect to be shown a flush over half the time
 
Genso Hikki

Genso Hikki

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I agree, you call - and as the others pointed out you should have bet the turn. If the BB is holding the straight or even a low flush, he'll call, but I doubt he'll raise considering he has to consider you may have the bigger flush. Betting the turn may have given you a better idea of where you were in the hand.
 
Y

young hova

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Umm are we playing yahtzee or did someone go behind my back and change the damn rules of poker again!

The T should give us a straight and may produce a higher straight draw and the only straight I am seeing on the flop is 57 unless like I said 4 straights are good now and no one let me know...
WHOOPS...I'm blind as a bat, glad someone caught that...That makes about half of what I said a moot point. So just listen to everybody else and bet the turn, my bad on the misread.
 
DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

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As played you should call the river.I would have raised the flop instead of calling.I also would bet out on the turn to see where I stand.Stack sizes would also be helpful.
 
Bombjack

Bombjack

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Here is the answer:

1. Fold pre-flop
2. Call flop. Note to some posters, he doesn't have the nuts, he has a weakish draw
3. Bet big on turn to protect your hand / gain value from flush draws / pairs / sets. Think about folding if raised
4. As played, make a small value raise on the river because you're ahead a lot of the time, and if you're behind, it's an easy fold if you get re-raised. No-one's ever coming over the top with a worse hand. If it's a very tight player who's betting, just call.
 
DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

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I recant my statement about raising the flop.I did misread and thought he flopped a straight.Also I agree with everything bombjack says.Thats all.
 
pigpen02

pigpen02

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Here is the answer:

1. Fold pre-flop
2. Call flop. Note to some posters, he doesn't have the nuts, he has a weakish draw
3. Bet big on turn to protect your hand / gain value from flush draws / pairs / sets. Think about folding if raised
4. As played, make a small value raise on the river because you're ahead a lot of the time, and if you're behind, it's an easy fold if you get re-raised. No-one's ever coming over the top with a worse hand. If it's a very tight player who's betting, just call.

I am surprised it eleven replies to have this part of four.
 
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