What hand would you rather have?

[jeffred1111]

66 all the way. An opponent flopping a flush happens .5% of the time and since it was limped to him, I feel that many people would check in the BB to get in a c/r if they held two suited spades: the bet indicates a steal attempt a good % of the time. We probably facing two pairs, overs with one spade, a smaller set or some doofus with a med pp. So we are actually favorite to a huge part of villain's range and have a 33% chance of improving to boat or better by showdown if we are behind (wich is unlikely). We have to remember that a flopped flush is a tiny, tiny part of villain's range and that we lose pretty much nothing by raising and it is the correct play against 99.5% of the range. If called, I might also slow down, especially if everyone is still in the pot.

So I raise to 9bb and fold to any reraise (or if I feel I won't be raised, I might just call). If a spade hits that doesn't pair the board, I'm out if somebody bets. If faced with another bet (up to 2/3 pot) with no spades, I am calling to see river and dump UI. 66 plays actually nicely in this spot since our opponents don't know we don't already have a flush, so it is easy to get away from when faced with resistance (who would bluff into 4 people in this spot ? No one).


78s, I play it hard and fast (raise and maybe reraise). The chances of someone flopping a higher flush are next to zero. If another spade hits on the turn or river, I go into passive mode and check/call.

45d, I call and muck to any resistance on further street, especially if the board pairs or if another spade hits.

 

[skoldpadda]

Always take the made hand.

The 66 is perhaps a bit easier to play; the 45 str would be a near insta-muck to action. The small flush can improve very rarely.

So I take the flush.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

This is quite funny because this statement is itself both condescending, and in its implication that I'm objectively wrong, wrong.

OK 66 has more outs to a stronger hand, but with top set you're also going to be paying off another player holding 87s either to chase, or for value if you think your hand is good. What are you going to do, try to check it down as cheaply as possible? Many players will go crazy with top set on a board like this, reasoning that their hand is probably good and they have to price out draws, and if they're beat, they have outs - but end up getting their money in bad.

On the other hand, if another player is just on a spade draw, in order to win a big pot, the board is going to have to pair AND bring another spade. Both obviously can't happen on the Turn, and on the river it's a 45:1 shot.

Plus, holding 87s, you're in better shape versus a higher flush draw, because you have blockers which you don't with 66.

Note that I didn't give an answer in my last post, so I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your actual answer (I churned some numbers in PokerStove and was a little surprised but I'm still on the fence), just the reasoning. You asserted in your first post that the stronger hand is always better, which is quite easily disprovable even in this example because 54 is less desirable than 66 (I trust this is obvious, as there are zero hands that 54 beats and 66 doesn't, the only sort-of exception being if we have 66 and villain has 54 himself, but this negative doesn't cover the positive of the draws we have in the event we are beat, and the redraws we have if villain turns a flush, simply because the possible hands that beat us amount to more than just 54).

I just thought it was amusing you were making the question out to be absolutely clear-cut when it isn't. I have to admit, for a couple of minutes I thought exactly the same thing you did, but then I thought, "hang on a sec, dbitel wouldn't post such a stupidly easy question here".