TPTK vs. flush draw?

insolitude

insolitude

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Total posts
255
Would love to get some feedback on my betting thus far and whether I should call the all-in at the end.

PokerStars Game #15437591287: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/02/21 - 01:46:35 (ET)
Table 'Egeria' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: tebbzy099 ($0.98 in chips)
Seat 3: buckeyeguy83 ($7.08 in chips)
Seat 4: Mr.MojoRi$in ($0.88 in chips)
Seat 5: insolitude ($7.02 in chips)
Seat 6: alf06 ($2.97 in chips)
insolitude: posts small blind $0.01
alf06: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to insolitude [Ad Ks]
tebbzy099: calls $0.02
buckeyeguy83: calls $0.02
Mr.MojoRi$in: folds
insolitude: raises $0.22 to $0.24
alf06: folds
tebbzy099: calls $0.22
buckeyeguy83: raises $0.22 to $0.46
insolitude: calls $0.22
tebbzy099: calls $0.22
*** FLOP *** [Tc 5d 6c]
insolitude: bets $0.20 (just trying to control the pot size)
tebbzy099: raises $0.32 to $0.52 and is all-in
buckeyeguy83: calls $0.52
insolitude: calls $0.32
*** TURN *** [Tc 5d 6c] [Kd]
insolitude: bets $0.48
buckeyeguy83: raises $0.48 to $0.96
insolitude: calls $0.48
*** RIVER *** [Tc 5d 6c Kd] [5c]
Bill88Gold joins the table at seat #2
insolitude: bets $0.48 (suspect buckeyeguy83 made a club draw)
buckeyeguy83: raises $4.66 to $5.14 and is all-in
insolitude: (fold?)
 
Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

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I think you're betting the whole way was horrible, tbh. First you raise PF to 12xBB (though I don't object to calling the reraise, I suppose), then on the flop you say you're trying to control pot size? If that's you plan, you failed PF. You bet 1/7 of the pot ($.20 into $1.40) on the flop then call a raise with A high and no good draw. You hit TPTK on the turn and bet out $.48 into a $2.96 pot (1/6 of the pot) against two opponents? Then you call the min-raise by the guy that has been flat calling raises all along and is now raising knowing full well the other player is all in? Then on the river you bet about 1/10 of the pot and villian (still knowing other guy is all in) shoves.

What are you calling with that you honestly think you can beat? Sure you may be ahead here, but there is absolutely no way of knowing. All you did was spew chips out and have absolutely no idea where you stand. Club draws made it, boats made it, quads maybe too. As played, you have to fold and cut your losses at this point.

I would raise a bit less PF, but I haven't played 2NL in a long time. Assuming you'll say 12xBB PF raise is standard at that table, then your c-bet on the flop should have been 2/3 to full pot ($1.00-$1.40 would do) to stifle the club draws. TPTK on the turn and I pot there and call a shove. At 2NL you're ahead more than you're behind, IMO. I also think the higher aggression may end that hand sooner.
 
Last edited:
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
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May 16, 2006
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6,129
this hand is an abortion and your bet sizing is sincerely awful. one of the objects of poker is to get your opponents to make mathematical mistakes, which can be hard to do when you're betting like 20% of the pot every time draws are out. not much more to add, just listen to JD imo
 
insolitude

insolitude

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Total posts
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I think you're betting the whole way was horrible, tbh. First you raise PF to 12xBB (though I don't object to calling the reraise, I suppose)...

5-12xBB is a frequent raise of mine. I find at this level I'll usually get 1-3 callers at a full table. When I raise 3-4xBB everyone calls and it just goes downhill from there. But I'm here to learn, so feel free to enlighten me as to a better PF strategy.

...then on the flop you say you're trying to control pot size? If that's you plan, you failed PF. You bet 1/7 of the pot ($.20 into $1.40) on the flop then call a raise with A high and no good draw. You hit TPTK on the turn and bet out $.48 into a $2.96 pot (1/6 of the pot) against two opponents? Then you call the min-raise by the guy that has been flat calling raises all along and is now raising knowing full well the other player is all in? Then on the river you bet about 1/10 of the pot and villian (still knowing other guy is all in) shoves.

By controlling pot size I mean when I lead out at these levels I find very few raises. I figure it's a way to see cheap card. Of course, it gives everyone else a cheap card, too... I agree my c-bet was a joke and NOT a way to get this hand ended early.

What are you calling with that you honestly think you can beat? Sure you may be ahead here, but there is absolutely no way of knowing. All you did was spew chips out and have absolutely no idea where you stand. Club draws made it, boats made it, quads maybe too. As played, you have to fold and cut your losses at this point.

I would raise a bit less PF, but I haven't played 2NL in a long time. Assuming you'll say 12xBB PF raise is standard at that table, then your c-bet on the flop should have been 2/3 to full pot ($1.00-$1.40 would do) to stifle the club draws. TPTK on the turn and I pot there and call a shove. At 2NL you're ahead more than you're behind, IMO. I also think the higher aggression may end that hand sooner.

I did end up folding the (side pot) winning hand. I can't believe this guy shoved with K3o but whatever...

buckeyeguy83: raises $4.66 to $5.14 and is all-in
insolitude: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
buckeyeguy83: shows [3h Kc] (two pair, Kings and Fives)
buckeyeguy83 collected $2.73 from side pot
tebbzy099: shows [Ac 2c] (a flush, Ace high)
tebbzy099 collected $2.86 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $5.84 Main pot $2.86. Side pot $2.73. | Rake $0.25
Board [Tc 5d 6c Kd 5c]
Seat 1: tebbzy099 showed [Ac 2c] and won ($2.86) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: buckeyeguy83 showed [3h Kc] and won ($2.73) with two pair, Kings and Fives
Seat 4: Mr.MojoRi$in (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: insolitude (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 6: alf06 (big blind) folded before Flop
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

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5-12xBB is a frequent raise of mine. I find at this level I'll usually get 1-3 callers at a full table. When I raise 3-4xBB everyone calls and it just goes downhill from there. But I'm here to learn, so feel free to enlighten me as to a better PF strategy.

IMHO if I'm at this kind of table where 3x-4x raises are called by everyone then I'm tightening way up on my EP starting hands and adding suited connectors & suited one-gappers to my calling hands on the CO, BTN, SB. If I don't hit at least top 2P or a ST8 flush draw then I'm dumping the hand at the turn. This is a good example of playing the players and not playing the cards. In EP on a 'normal' table I might raise AJo in EP but at this kind of table I'm folding it 90% of the time.
 
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