KhKs against a board w4clubs and a big river bet

[james222]

No reads was only my second hand at the table.

pokerstars Game #9438866983: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/15 - 16:50:31 (ET)
Table 'Bruwer II' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: BlueDevils09 ($53.20 in chips)
Seat 2: RickC1883 ($30.55 in chips)
Seat 3: jimbo7777 ($30.95 in chips)
Seat 4: ununseptium ($22.65 in chips)
Seat 5: playhard2 ($34 in chips)
Seat 6: Xian_Hua ($30 in chips)
Seat 7: SNQQPY ($30 in chips)
Seat 8: mikey737 ($76.30 in chips)
Seat 9: Bobk180 ($53 in chips)
Xian_Hua: posts small blind $0.25
SNQQPY: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jimbo7777 [Kh Ks]
mikey737: folds
mikey737 is sitting out
Bobk180: calls $0.50
BlueDevils09: folds
RickC1883: folds
jimbo7777: raises $1.50 to $2
ununseptium: folds
playhard2: folds
Xian_Hua: folds
SNQQPY: folds
Bobk180: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [Qc 4h Tc]
Bobk180: bets $0.50
jimbo7777: raises $2.50 to $3
Bobk180: calls $2.50
*** TURN *** [Qc 4h Tc] [Jc]
Bobk180: bets $0.50
jimbo7777: raises $5.50 to $6
Bobk180: calls $5.50
*** RIVER *** [Qc 4h Tc Jc] [5c]
Bobk180: bets $20
jimbo7777: ????

 

[Irexes]

You cannot call this. You may even be beat on the turn.

 

[alan1983]

Youve been reraising throughout, itd take some very werid skills for him 2 bet out without a club here.

Id fold. nice play if he doesnt have it (altho his weird betting all over kinda lures me into wantin to call lol). But sucks calling and losing to a 7 of clubs.....

 

[rob5775]

Thats horrible to see with KK, but I agree with Irexes... you cant call that bet. You beat a complete bluff or TP, and thats ignoring a possible straight also (though I don't know who limps with AK).

 

[shinedown.45]

Fold here, something tells me he's slowplaying A-A with one of them being a club.

 

[blankoblanco]

I really don't think he slowplayed AA, but it does look a lot like an Ac or maybe even a valuebet with the Kc. This could definitely be a bluff, but you say you're new to the table and don't have reads. Although often, by how it was played, he'd be too afraid of you having the Ac or Kc to bet here unless he had it himself. And without any read, I've found it's usually unprofitable to make a big call like this that puts someone on a big bluff, unless their line really makes no sense for any hand that beats you.

I think his line makes sense for Ac with some other card that makes a pair, or Ax both of clubs (maybe Kx both of clubs), and he already hit his flush on the turn. Or even 89c for the straight flush

Presumably he was calling you down with something. If he was calling you down with a Q, I don't think he'd make this bet and turn his top pair into a bluffing hand... he'd probably just hope to get to showdown cheaply and maybe have the best hand. So a flush draw makes sense and, readless, I have to fold

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Really routine fold. Your good hand has turned to crap and you're only beating a total bluff now.

"Don't get married to big hands on unfavourable boards" is running around in my head.

 

[blankoblanco]

Really routine fold. Your good hand has turned to crap and you're only beating a total bluff now.

I agree it's a fold, but I think this is a bluff a decent % of the time

 

[james222]

My first thought was i cant call this bet. But this bet just didnt add up to the ranges of hands i had him on. Most of you included AcXc or XcXc in his range. I would have also considering the way he played the flop, but after his turn play i couldnt give him credit for that anymore. didnt have those in his range considering the way he played flop and turn. It was also hard for me to give him credit for an AcXx.

I felt he knew it was very likely that i didnt have a club and that he knew i couldnt call this unless i did. If not why bet so much unless he has Ac hoping i have Kc. If he thinks i flopped a set then he knows i dont have a club for sure. It was more so that i was excluding the hands from his range that he would make this bet with.

well i did call and he had Jh9h <--- makes sense

This is the first time i ever made a call like this. I almost instanly folded this hand btw, but always wait to click the button for atleast a few seconds in this type of situation. This time i ended up being right but might be wrong next time. The only thing i really disagree about is this being an easy fold and including two clubs in his range. I think its closer than most think to whether this call is profitable or unprofitable.

 

[Bombjack]

You have to type in "misclick " after that kind of call...

 

[ChuckTs]

You can NOT make this call.

What % of the time would you guess that he's bluffing, james?

 

[james222]

You have to type in "misclick " after that kind of call...

why you say that?

You can NOT make this call.

What % of the time would you guess that he's bluffing, james?

idk. In most similar situations i fold though. It was an instinct call.

 

[calibanboy]

"In most similar situations i fold though. It was an instinct call."

you should play my wife - she has "womans intuition".....could be a very unorthodox game.

( said with wry smile on my face )

 

[james222]

if you guys knew my game you would know its very out of the ordinary for me to make a call like this. I went with my reads and im willing to forget about ranges sometimes and just go with strict reads.

So you guys are saying its wrong to go against your read even knowing how strongly you feel about it and just fold this?

 

[Bombjack]

if you guys knew my game you would know its very out of the ordinary for me to make a call like this. I went with my reads and im willing to forget about ranges sometimes and just go with strict reads.

So you guys are saying its wrong to go against your read even knowing how strongly you feel about it and just fold this?

I say if you think you're ahead, make the call. If you have a specific read on a player, you have to take it into account. This is what will set you apart from the competition.

What some people are trying to say, is that against an unknown with no specific reads, this call will not be profitable. And as you said, this is only your second hand at the table.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

No reads was only my second hand at the table.

So you guys are saying its wrong to go against your read even knowing how strongly you feel about it and just fold this?

ummm

 

[zeot]

honestly, he flat called your bet preflop, he flat called your bet on the flop, i think the turn bet was a waste because it was pretty clear he wanted his flush, and the river just sealed it since you didn't have a club.

 

[alexanderwoo1]

Obviously it is an easy fold

 

[loopmeister]

It's a crappy situation, but I think he used the ol' rope-a-dope on you here. I'd even suggest TT isn't out of his range and put in a ballsy river bet. But either way, you're probably behind.

I know the feeling though, you almost want to convince yourself that he's bluffing. I've lost quite a few bob by rationalising myself into calling losing hands.

 

[joeeagles]

I'm with Bombjack on this one, I agree with his view. If you have a specific read on this player, you can make this call. But with no specific reads, there is no way this call will be profitable. It was your second hand so you fall in the latter group.

You caught him bluffing and took a nice pot, that was great, but don't fool yourself into believing that this is a profitable call in the circumstance you were in.