Defending big blind in 2-7 triple draw

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roggles

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The setting is a multitable tournament in 2-7 3d. The limits are fairly high, 300/600 and my stack is about 6000.

The button-1 is a very aggressive player and he raises on my big blind. I have 2-4-2-x-x and even though this is of course not a hand I'd normally play I think it is worth defending my blind with it so I call the raise. I get lucky and get 2-3-4-7-x in the first draw. He draws two, so I bet. On my second draw I hit a 6, and he calls down two more bets letting me take home quite a big pot.

Now, the raiser gets really angry at me afterwards, saying that I am a donkey for calling a raise and drawing 3. Is he right? In cash game I always call one raise on the big blind with 2-3, 2-4, 2-5, 2-7 and hope to improve quickly. Sometimes I will play 2-6, but usually not since I am in big enough trouble drawing 3 already. Is this a terrible play?
 
Irexes

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Hello Roggles, glad you made it :)

There's not a huge amount of triple draw players here but you might get a response or two. I'll move to Hand Analysis so it might get spotted.

Rex
 
skoldpadda

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I don't think it's so bad. You can always give it up after the first draw and since you have the best card (a "2" for you who don't play) twice, you have likely a card that he will not have at the end. There is a percentage of time he'll be bluffing on the raise as well. By drawing 3, you're showing him you can't be run over as well. Of course if you had something like 22244, drawing 3 is even more sound strategy.
 
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jeffred1111

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Not at all since you've established yourself as someone who doesn't like his blinds stolen. It isn't orthodox per se, but I've seen people defend their blind in 5 card draw (not the same I know, even worse) and draw 4 (!!!) so it isn't out of line. He got angry probably because he raised you and you played back.
 
Emperor IX

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This hand is the main reason that I prefer 3d to Kansas City. Defending your blind is a good idea here, with a three card draw, if you can strike gold you're in good position to win a nice pot. After you got a 2-4-7 draw there's no turning back. I'd make that call against any overly-aggressive player.
 
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joeeagles

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The setting is a multitable tournament in 2-7 3d. The limits are fairly high, 300/600 and my stack is about 6000.

The button-1 is a very aggressive player and he raises on my big blind. I have 2-4-2-x-x and even though this is of course not a hand I'd normally play I think it is worth defending my blind with it so I call the raise. I get lucky and get 2-3-4-7-x in the first draw. He draws two, so I bet. On my second draw I hit a 6, and he calls down two more bets letting me take home quite a big pot.

Now, the raiser gets really angry at me afterwards, saying that I am a donkey for calling a raise and drawing 3. Is he right? In cash game I always call one raise on the big blind with 2-3, 2-4, 2-5, 2-7 and hope to improve quickly. Sometimes I will play 2-6, but usually not since I am in big enough trouble drawing 3 already. Is this a terrible play?


Haven't played 2-7 Triple draw in a long time, even years ago I played mostly 5-card draw and recently been caught with holdem. Glad to see someone still likes it though, it is after all a fun game in the right setting.

Anyway the hand above, although probably not textbook, is fine IMO, mostly because made against a player you describe as very aggressive. The extra 300 to call the raise is worth it against such a player, although you need to ideally catch 2 babies on the first draw if not its best to give it up if he keeps firing at the pot, even if he drawed 2, because of your stack size that can't really afford risky double bets. You don't want to get in a crapshoot, and you forgot to mention how big his stack is as compared to yours.

After your first draw where you caught a 3 and a 7 you're in the drivers seat, particularly cause he drawed 2, and as Emperor already said at that point there is no turning back, you have the best potential hand with 2 draws left, and you caught the 2nd nuts right after. If I were you I wouldn't bother with what he said about you being a donkey, granted you got a bit lucky in the hand but that's a part of any type of poker. Although I wouldn't want to qualify myself as an expert in this game, I wouldn't call this a terrible play because of raiser being very aggressive, as I already said. I do also have to admit that in my days I never played a 2-7 draw tourney, only cash games, and maybe the fact its a tourney, where survival considerations need to be made, might put this hand in a different perspective. Also I don't know if it was around the bubble or you were ITM already, you didn't mention this, and it makes a difference I think since your opponent would make a play or not accordingly to that. Probably if you're ITM money I'd tend to respect his raise more, viceversa on the bubble or close to the money its way different, and I'd be more inclined to make the call hoping to catch against a LAG.

Well done anyways. Are you strictly a 2-7 3d player?
 
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roggles

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The tourney was actually a satellite (to the $215 WCOOP 2-7 event), and it was quite far away from the "money" I think. I wouldn't really respect his raises. I forgot to mention this, but when I bet after the first draw he reraised me, so he was indeed very aggressive.

No, I am not strictly 2-7 3d player. I just picked up poker a month ago, after a one year hiatus. I am a bit more serious this time, trying to learn how to play well. 2-7 and Razz are definitely the games that have brought me the most money. Even at $3/6 on pokerstars there are many players who don't understand starting hands, especially not in 2-7. I probably play more hold 'em because it's fun, but it's possible that I've in total lost money playing hold em.
 
mrsnake3695

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I like the call myself and having 2 2's makes drawing 3 not that bad a play. Since you started with 2 2's that means there are less 2s for villan to have. And as you know in 2-7 2s are gold.
 
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joeeagles

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The tourney was actually a satellite (to the $215 WCOOP 2-7 event),

Hey that's pretty cool, nice job!! I thought it was a regular tourney. I just checked out this event it has a $100k garanteed, I bet you're excited to be in it (if I'm understanding correctly that you won a seat).

There is nothing wrong with RAZZ and 2-7 3d being the games you're strongest in, I'm pretty new to holdem myself, just a little over half a year playing for real money. I actually stayed about 6 years w/o playing a single hand of any form of poker. I used to have a home game which was mostly 5 card draw, with 2-7 3d played every now and then. After I moved, I haven't played a live hand ever since, and just recently started on-line, playing holdem for the first time after having only seen it on TV. So I'm experiencing the same growing pains you are. You should probably split your time between all these games, to help your BR grow with the games you're stronger in and learning holdem in the process.

I bet you're right that at $3/$6 there are many players in 2-7 that barely understand starting hands, although I'd have to admit that I'm a bit rusty myself after all this time. You're thread gave me the idea to check out tourneys though, which I've never played before, and I think I'll give it a shot at the lower buy-ins.

About holdem, if you stick around here there is plenty to learn. I can say w/o any doubt this forum has improved my game, if anything you have a chance to see how people think about hands, since you're probably familar with the basics. Reading about the game never hurts, and there's plenty here whether you like cash games or tourneys.
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

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Just a quick question, what's the difference between triple draw and Baldugi? Or are they the same game. I play Baldugi.
 
Emperor IX

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Just a quick question, what's the difference between triple draw and Baldugi? Or are they the same game. I play Baldugi.

In BAdugi, you try to get four cards of different suits like that. Plus, you only have 4 cards. You have to remove pairs and the higher cards of matching suits.
 
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roggles

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Hey that's pretty cool, nice job!! I thought it was a regular tourney. I just checked out this event it has a $100k garanteed, I bet you're excited to be in it (if I'm understanding correctly that you won a seat).
I did make the spot, but actually I feel my game is far from solid enough to play a $215 tourney. I'm going to try to sell the W$ to someone, or otherwise I think I have the best shot playing the Razz event instead.
 
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joeeagles

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I did make the spot, but actually I feel my game is far from solid enough to play a $215 tourney. I'm going to try to sell the W$ to someone, or otherwise I think I have the best shot playing the Razz event instead.


Fair enough. If you want to sell it there are several sites that buy them, you can shop around to see who pays better. I believe that they give somewhere around 82%/85% for W$, and they pay a little more than that for T$. If you know someone interested in the $W you're probably better off, you can negotiate a better rate. There is enough time until the WCOOP kicks off for you to do so, you won this really early.

Good luck with it.
 
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roggles

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Wow, thanks for that advice. I found one site buying W$ for 91 %
 
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roggles

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Actually, now I am a little afraid to make the trade. Obviously it is not accepted behaviour of the people selling/buying W$ to run such a business. So I am afraid that I will be punished if I deal with them. Anyone have any experience with this?
 
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joeeagles

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Actually, now I am a little afraid to make the trade. Obviously it is not accepted behaviour of the people selling/buying W$ to run such a business. So I am afraid that I will be punished if I deal with them. Anyone have any experience with this?


I've never done it before because the only sat's I've played in had $T, and not $W. I don't sell my $T cause you can use them in any tourney, so I've never traded with those sites. But as far as I know PS doesn't object to these trades. I've seen many avatars sponsoring these sites, and because any image is subject to approval, I have to assume that PS has nothing against them. The reason is probably that all this benefits their high rollers.

Don't take my word for it though, just to make sure the best thing you can do is contact PS support. Their answer will likely be something in the neighbourhood of "we don't suggest to sell $W, however we don't prohibit it". I'm sure its fine, but e-mail them for peace of mind.
 
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