Is this correct spot to limp?

Balou1982

Balou1982

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in my opinion you see flop very cheap, at turn and river you can see how villain is reacting. it gives you more information about the range of your opponent, at flop i would be a bit scared in case of the 7´s but at turn and river it is clear he is only holding one 7 otherwise it would be an all in from your villain!

so probably to limp in such a case isnt that bad because with only one villain in many examples the pot could be very small, if he hits nothing on flop, and see 8-A-8 or A-7-Q it will be the end with a small bet from your position and you earn peanuts from pot.

in your case you made no mistake because the pot size is awesome, and the flop was the best for you because no more seven was coming in the end ;-).
 
BigKulpPoker

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in my opinion you see flop very cheap, at turn and river you can see how villain is reacting. it gives you more information about the range of your opponent, at flop i would be a bit scared in case of the 7´s but at turn and river it is clear he is only holding one 7 otherwise it would be an all in from your villain!

so probably to limp in such a case isnt that bad because with only one villain in many examples the pot could be very small, if he hits nothing on flop, and see 8-A-8 or A-7-Q it will be the end with a small bet from your position and you earn peanuts from pot.

in your case you made no mistake because the pot size is awesome, and the flop was the best for you because no more seven was coming in the end ;-).
I didn't to raise out a weaker player with a weaker hand.
 
Aballinamion

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Is this the correct spot to limp? Hand here
I think it sucks to trap with AA or whatever hand we elect to limp. Never limp, this is how you play, aggressively, raising your entire range not to give information to your opponents.
Why this trap sucks?

Once upon a time hero had AA and decided to limp to trap:

a) many players limp into the pot reducing hero’s equity

b) hero limps AA and everyone folds: BB checks and realize its equity for free

c) hero limps AA and get raised to 4x (sweet?). Then hero raises to 16x and opponent folds

What is the real advantage of limping AA to trap or any other hand? Please, I beg you to show me the evidence. 😊
 
eetenor

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Would you limp in this spot? Hand review here.
You can play exploit if that is the best action vs a Villain- however because you limped in this spot you made a full house vs trips and missed value by not getting stacks in.
The lead on flop is not consistent with this portion of our range in a limping strategy - if we are going to play that strategy we want to be consistent on each street and leading this spot vs a V that is a known to fold is not great- we got lucky they had a 7 but we are always going to win a big pot vs a seven- we want to learn to win pots vs other hands in their range. We do this by not leading flop with this hand.

On the turn if the V had a flush draw what do we think they will do on river if it misses?
Do we think they will fold a flush draw on turn to a XR?
What do they do with a 7 on turn XR?
So if they call a flush draw and shove a seven can we not target them on the turn?
Would we not have some bluffs on turn? Some AJ limp trap 2 pair? Some 7x ourselves?

We check turn then on river we check letting them check everything that is not a 7?
A player we thought we would scare away preflop is not checking back all their Ax hands that tie most other Ax hands

They bet and we check raise small why?
Are we really going to target an ace here?
Will we get value from a player that folds to preflop aggression when they do not have a 7?
Would we try to bluff like that?
Would we XR a weak Ax hand?
What other than a 7 calls us?
If only 7's call and the V has a pot size bet behind could we not shove? Would we shove bluffs?


If we did not think the V would call off for stacks on the river does that not again put us in the spot of taking some other action on turn? Leading? XR?
Or river- Leading small as a blocker because the flush missed?

You may have played perfectly vs this V but thinking about the above strategies might have value as well.

Nice win- good job thinking out of the box

:unsure::geek:
 
BigKulpPoker

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I think it sucks to trap with AA or whatever hand we elect to limp. Never limp, this is how you play, aggressively, raising your entire range not to give information to your opponents.
Why this trap sucks?

Once upon a time hero had AA and decided to limp to trap:

a) many players limp into the pot reducing hero’s equity

b) hero limps AA and everyone folds: BB checks and realize its equity for free

c) hero limps AA and get raised to 4x (sweet?). Then hero raises to 16x and opponent folds

What is the real advantage of limping AA to trap or any other hand? Please, I beg you to show me the evidence. 😊
DNegs recently did an entire podcast on the benefits of limping. The advantage is seeing a flop with a good hand against a bad player with a bad hand. Always raising, you'll have a nice win percent, but a bad money rate if you raise out bad hands.
 
BigKulpPoker

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You can play exploit if that is the best action vs a Villain- however because you limped in this spot you made a full house vs trips and missed value by not getting stacks in.
The lead on flop is not consistent with this portion of our range in a limping strategy - if we are going to play that strategy we want to be consistent on each street and leading this spot vs a V that is a known to fold is not great- we got lucky they had a 7 but we are always going to win a big pot vs a seven- we want to learn to win pots vs other hands in their range. We do this by not leading flop with this hand.

On the turn if the V had a flush draw what do we think they will do on river if it misses?
Do we think they will fold a flush draw on turn to a XR?
What do they do with a 7 on turn XR?
So if they call a flush draw and shove a seven can we not target them on the turn?
Would we not have some bluffs on turn? Some AJ limp trap 2 pair? Some 7x ourselves?

We check turn then on river we check letting them check everything that is not a 7?
A player we thought we would scare away preflop is not checking back all their Ax hands that tie most other Ax hands

They bet and we check raise small why?
Are we really going to target an ace here?
Will we get value from a player that folds to preflop aggression when they do not have a 7?
Would we try to bluff like that?
Would we XR a weak Ax hand?
What other than a 7 calls us?
If only 7's call and the V has a pot size bet behind could we not shove? Would we shove bluffs?


If we did not think the V would call off for stacks on the river does that not again put us in the spot of taking some other action on turn? Leading? XR?
Or river- Leading small as a blocker because the flush missed?

You may have played perfectly vs this V but thinking about the above strategies might have value as well.

Nice win- good job thinking out of the box

:unsure::geek:
Raising preflop runs a high risk of him folding, or calling and folding on all flops he doesn't crush. You can lose value by raising your strong hands.
 
S

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Dnegs and some other pros/coaches recently did videos on limping. DNegs recently admitted to limping for 3 decades.
Remember Dnegs is mostly playing tourneys where there is an ante and ICM implications. Limping into a 2.5bb pot where no rake will be taken is much more attractive than into a 1.5bb pot with rake.

Ok you a worried about you opponent folding if you raise to $1.50, and winning only $0.50
But if you limp and BB checks behind, alot of the time he will fold to your flop bet and you only win $0.48 after rake.

Better to head to the flop with $3 in it and risk a fold pre rather than just $1 in the pot.

Limping from SB is viable, but is better in low rake environments. And I would only limp AA a very small portion of the time to balance against all the trash i want to limp in and see a cheap flop. It's a tough strategy to implement and probably not worth the bother, given most opponents will overfold to a raise or fold strategy anyway.
 
BigKulpPoker

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Remember Dnegs is mostly playing tourneys where there is an ante and ICM implications. Limping into a 2.5bb pot where no rake will be taken is much more attractive than into a 1.5bb pot with rake.

Ok you a worried about you opponent folding if you raise to $1.50, and winning only $0.50
But if you limp and BB checks behind, alot of the time he will fold to your flop bet and you only win $0.48 after rake.

Better to head to the flop with $3 in it and risk a fold pre rather than just $1 in the pot.

Limping from SB is viable, but is better in low rake environments. And I would only limp AA a very small portion of the time to balance against all the trash i want to limp in and see a cheap flop. It's a tough strategy to implement and probably not worth the bother, given most opponents will overfold to a raise or fold strategy anyway.
The limp strategy is definitely only if you're the best post flop player. Limping causes bigger unknown ranges with more difficult SPR, and multiway as well. So only recommended for higher level players or a fish table.
 
Aballinamion

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Remember Dnegs is mostly playing tourneys where there is an ante and ICM implications. Limping into a 2.5bb pot where no rake will be taken is much more attractive than into a 1.5bb pot with rake.

Ok you a worried about you opponent folding if you raise to $1.50, and winning only $0.50
But if you limp and BB checks behind, alot of the time he will fold to your flop bet and you only win $0.48 after rake.

Better to head to the flop with $3 in it and risk a fold pre rather than just $1 in the pot.

Limping from SB is viable, but is better in low rake environments. And I would only limp AA a very small portion of the time to balance against all the trash i want to limp in and see a cheap flop. It's a tough strategy to implement and probably not worth the bother, given most opponents will overfold to a raise or fold strategy anyway.
Yes. We are cash players. 😃 😈
 
BigKulpPoker

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Yes. We are cash players. 😃 😈
DNegs plays cash and tournaments. When he admitted he was limping off camera for 3 decades, he was referring to cash games in untelevised games. The idea you never limp is very outdated poker theory.
 
Aballinamion

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DNegs plays cash and tournaments. When he admitted he was limping off camera for 3 decades, he was referring to cash games in untelevised games. The idea you never limp is very outdated poker theory.
If you think it’s profitable for micro, low and mid stakes, go forward! 😊
Hope to see you at the tables! 😉
 
BigKulpPoker

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If you think it’s profitable for micro, low and mid stakes, go forward! 😊
Hope to see you at the tables! 😉
So far its been very profitable line, and people that I've taught are reporting its working well too.
 
Gallarado777

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Of course, the limp is cool from blind to blind, it's okay to play either with a big discovery, so it depends on the player and which player you're playing against, but after he launched aggression against you himself, you should have answered him more to win more from every street because he can't think of bluffs on the turn and the river
 
Mortis

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I never limp with Aces, it sets up your opp to catch something with junk. That just happened to be the perfect flop for you since you flopped the FH, and your opp caught a really good hand. Nice hand, though.
 
BigKulpPoker

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I never limp with Aces, it sets up your opp to catch something with junk. That just happened to be the perfect flop for you since you flopped the FH, and your opp caught a really good hand. Nice hand, though.
It takes a perfect flop for AA to win?
 
BigKulpPoker

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I never limp with Aces, it sets up your opp to catch something with junk. That just happened to be the perfect flop for you since you flopped the FH, and your opp caught a really good hand. Nice hand, though.
Junk always beats AA or even a majority of the time?
 
almir nicolau

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Regarding just the limp or the rease I'm sure that the most EV move in the situation in a blind war spot with a very strong hand AA we want to inflate the pot already prefop, the action that I would apply preflop would be at least 3x the blind since the bigblind's defense range will be very wide so you can already extract value with the cebet (continue betting) Flop 66% pot.
obs: in deep stacks we can bet very high to extract the maximum. :) glglgl.
 
ga25x

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From my point of view it's a bad play, but good result due to luck :)
 
spectralwave

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When you have the best hand never play without giving a root or a tribet, because AA you have to tell the opponent that you have a strong hand, then he will call, it is the easiest method to extract chips, the guy who calls all hands he will usually pay on these occasions, so note who these opponents are at your table and create your strategy on top of the bad player, if in half an hour you don't identify who the bad player at your table is, it's because the bad player at the table is you.

1692039390108
 
okeedokalee

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Yes you want your opponent in the hand when you have a huge pocket pair. It is one of the few times when limping is correct.
 
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