$50 QQ Raise, Reraise, another Reraise Preflop Action--What do you do on the flop??

[hott_estelle]

pokerstars Game #9430854687: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/15 - 05:29:40 (ET)
Table 'Sinon' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: sschulz39 ($10 in chips)
Seat 2: Basadoni ($75.95 in chips)
Seat 3: guppsala ($95.35 in chips)
Seat 4: redhead085 ($56 in chips)
Seat 5: joosebucklol ($49.85 in chips)
Seat 7: nicarboo ($57.35 in chips)
Seat 8: hott_estelle ($42.35 in chips)
Seat 9: blackmore ($95.75 in chips)
joosebucklol: posts small blind $0.25
KingKonan: is sitting out
nicarboo: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hott_estelle [Qs Qh]
KingKonan leaves the table
hott_estelle: raises $1.50 to $2
blackmore: folds
sschulz39: raises $1.50 to $3.50
Basadoni: folds
guppsala: raises $6.50 to $10
redhead085: folds
Paidtostunt joins the table at seat #6
joosebucklol said, "man"
joosebucklol said, "this is interesting."
hott_estelle said, "very"
joosebucklol said, "my 27 good?"
joosebucklol: folds
hott_estelle said, "very"
nicarboo: folds
hott_estelle: calls $8
sschulz39: calls $6.50 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [4d 8c Jc]
hott_estelle:???


Guppsala (3rd raiser) has been very loose in both preflop and post flop action. He has been raising hands like J4 suited preflop, and he has also been calling down with mid pairs, ect. The 2nd reraiser has been short stacked, and bought in short stacked a couple times. He buys in for like $10, and then busted twice, and has bought in for about $10 again here. So, he's either a really unlucky tight player, or just a really bad tight player, also low on cash.

I thought preflop, it was an obv. call. Nothing to it. Now post flop, what do we do here?? Do we check fearing the AA or KK, or do we bet out not wanting to give a free card to an AK, flush draw, or possibly AQ by a stretch?? Or do we even check here hoping to induce a bet from the loose player, and with plans to push all-in over the top when he does??

 

[hott_estelle]

Bump since people are actually on now.

 

[kadafi]

Id bet around 10 times BB and see where i am. What actually happened next?
or is this just an example.

 

[hott_estelle]

Id bet around 10 times BB and see where i am. What actually happened next?
or is this just an example.

I will post what happened next after a few more posts or just later tonight.

 

[Bombjack]

Check-fold.

 

[hott_estelle]

Check-fold.

To the loosest player on the table here? Maniac player, can we still let it go with that much ease??

 

[joosebuck]

i check call and reassess on the turn. he -was- very maniacal (as you can tell, i was there too) and his raise/3bet means little.

 

[Bombjack]

Sorry, missed the read. Against a normal tight player I wouldn't be too comfortable in this spot. But if he's that loose why not re-raise pre-flop then shove this flop?

If he's aggressive on the flop as well, you could check-raise.

 

[alan1983]

Have you seen him reraise strongly preflop before?

Coz even if hes maniacal about open raising or calling raises preflop, a rereraise can still mean a lot of strength.

If ive seen him do it before then i check-shove or bet out at that flop. If not id rather slow down.

 

[hott_estelle]

Sorry, missed the read. Against a normal tight player I wouldn't be too comfortable in this spot. But if he's that loose why not re-raise pre-flop then shove this flop?

If he's aggressive on the flop as well, you could check-raise.

PokerStars Game #9430854687: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/15 - 05:29:40 (ET)
Table 'Sinon' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: sschulz39 ($10 in chips)
Seat 2: Basadoni ($75.95 in chips)
Seat 3: guppsala ($95.35 in chips)
Seat 4: redhead085 ($56 in chips)
Seat 5: joosebucklol ($49.85 in chips)
Seat 7: nicarboo ($57.35 in chips)
Seat 8: hott_estelle ($42.35 in chips)
Seat 9: blackmore ($95.75 in chips)
joosebucklol: posts small blind $0.25
KingKonan: is sitting out
nicarboo: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hott_estelle [Qs Qh]
KingKonan leaves the table
hott_estelle: raises $1.50 to $2
blackmore: folds
sschulz39: raises $1.50 to $3.50
Basadoni: folds
guppsala: raises $6.50 to $10
redhead085: folds
Paidtostunt joins the table at seat #6
joosebucklol said, "man"
joosebucklol said, "this is interesting."
hott_estelle said, "very"
joosebucklol said, "my 27 good?"
joosebucklol: folds
hott_estelle said, "very"
nicarboo: folds
hott_estelle: calls $8
sschulz39: calls $6.50 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [4d 8c Jc]
hott_estelle: checks
guppsala: checks
*** TURN *** [4d 8c Jc] [Jd]
hott_estelle: ???

I did check, with plans to check-raise the flop. He checked behind me. Now on the turn what do we do? I would doubt a normal-straight forward player would ever check the flop there with AA or KK, but can't put anything past this guy right? Do we check, bet out, and if we bet out how much do we bet? If we bet, do we value bet here, or bet big still trying to push out possibly flush draws or an AK or AQ??

 

[joosebuck]

his check worries me. i dont exactly remember the hand, but he was pretty maniacal which would lead me to believe his check signifies a strong hand here, as he was betting out tons of air hands in the past. possible he has any pair TT+ i'd say. check and call a bet here

 

[hott_estelle]

PokerStars Game #9430854687: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/04/15 - 05:29:40 (ET)
Table 'Sinon' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: sschulz39 ($10 in chips)
Seat 2: Basadoni ($75.95 in chips)
Seat 3: guppsala ($95.35 in chips)
Seat 4: redhead085 ($56 in chips)
Seat 5: joosebucklol ($49.85 in chips)
Seat 7: nicarboo ($57.35 in chips)
Seat 8: hott_estelle ($42.35 in chips)
Seat 9: blackmore ($95.75 in chips)
joosebucklol: posts small blind $0.25
KingKonan: is sitting out
nicarboo: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hott_estelle [Qs Qh]
KingKonan leaves the table
hott_estelle: raises $1.50 to $2
blackmore: folds
sschulz39: raises $1.50 to $3.50
Basadoni: folds
guppsala: raises $6.50 to $10
redhead085: folds
Paidtostunt joins the table at seat #6
joosebucklol said, "man"
joosebucklol said, "this is interesting."
hott_estelle said, "very"
joosebucklol said, "my 27 good?"
joosebucklol: folds
hott_estelle said, "very"
nicarboo: folds
hott_estelle: calls $8
sschulz39: calls $6.50 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [4d 8c Jc]
hott_estelle: checks
guppsala: checks
*** TURN *** [4d 8c Jc] [Jd]
hott_estelle: bets $11
guppsala: folds
*** RIVER *** [4d 8c Jc Jd] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hott_estelle: shows [Qs Qh] (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
sschulz39: mucks hand
hott_estelle collected $29.25 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $30.75 | Rake $1.50
Board [4d 8c Jc Jd 9c]
Seat 1: sschulz39 mucked [Ad Qc]
Seat 2: Basadoni folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: guppsala folded on the Turn
Seat 4: redhead085 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: joosebucklol (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: nicarboo (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: hott_estelle showed [Qs Qh] and won ($29.25) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 9: blackmore folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[calibanboy]

Interesting.

Me personally.

I would have gone allin preflop. ( based on your comments )

I have QQ, and committing $10 against a player who wants to lose his money regularly and prepared to risk my whole stack to a player I know is playing like a maniac with QQ preflop. ( especially as he's likely to be playing marginal hand. )

You may think this has little skill - well true - but ultimatley I think your chances are better than 50% preflop against big stack. I am not worried about small stack.

Fortune favours the brave - I have just edited as I have read the result. I would do the same again ( same players same position ) regardless of the result in this hand. .

My opinion.