$50 NLHE 6-max: really gross 3way TPTK spot

[JCgrind]

Im usually on board with some of your flats when people say OMG AK 3bet, but i'm pretty sure this is a 3bet.

edit:

initiative is the nuts, winning pots uncontested is the nuts. Look at your winrates for cold calling IP, the BB/hand is never really impressive but your 3betting WR should be pretty juicy compared. I could see a flat if he wasn't a noob or was folding to 90% of 3bets but he's seeing the flop oop with half his range, thats a lot of hands you crush.

Yeah point taken. I like how different this thread went to how I intended lol always good. Obv the logic is that the tighter the range the less I 3b AK so I think cos he's a noob opening wide and still calling half the time maybe I should've 3b. Hmm I dunno, seems merits to both. Hard to say which is better w/o knowing his continuing range. 50% f3b isnt that accurate obv over 50 hands when he's opening 20%, thats prob 2 times in the sample size I've seen him get 3b. Very inconclusive
Acky would you mind sharing AKs/o winrates too so I can get an idea?

 

[acky100]

at 50nl and higher this year

AKo = 93BB/100 over 2k hands
AKs = 137BB/100 over 700 hands

Not sure what the numbers should be though, also not sure if they would be higher winrates at higher stakes or not. I guess not because there's less retards. Yeah i'd imagine the WR with every hand should go down the higher up you go actually.

 

[Ducky7]

at 50nl and higher this year

AKo = 93BB/100 over 2k hands
AKs = 137BB/100 over 700 hands

Not sure what the numbers should be though, also not sure if they would be higher winrates at higher stakes or not. I guess not because there's less retards. Yeah i'd imagine the WR with every hand should go down the higher up you go actually.

Maybe AK will get a higher winrate higher up though because people are getting in more pre flop wars and stacking off worse so you can get AK in pre without it being against Aces or Kings only? Or i am just being tard'd

 

[acky100]

Maybe AK will get a higher winrate higher up though because people are getting in more pre flop wars and stacking off worse so you can get AK in pre without it being against Aces or Kings only? Or i am just being tard'd

I think you're just being a tard mostly

 

[Deco]

Bigger samples needed imo. Defo for Jchoop maybe for acky.
You can determine how accurate your sample is by getting the std dev stat up and throwing your hands & win rate in to here.

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/poker_winrate_confidence/

 

[JCgrind]

Maybe AK will get a higher winrate higher up though because people are getting in more pre flop wars and stacking off worse so you can get AK in pre without it being against Aces or Kings only? Or i am just being tard'd

I agree w/ this 100% for reasons stated. You can happily get AK in for 100BBs in like any pre spot higher up but it's stupid at micros. I mean one time back in the day at 2000NL (I was half stacking) I opened UTG w/ KK and elky who was MP 3b, I 4b (not AI) and he 5b shoved. Obv my 4b+ range was super nutted as I was shitting myself playing so high, but ye i remember thinking wtf what a moron? I'm super tight w/ like no 4b range, I raised UTG and 4b and he's happy to get it in w/ AKo? Maybe cos I'm short, no fkn idea.
Inseresting results though acky, would you mind sharing EV BB/100 too?

Bigger samples needed imo. Defo for Jchoop maybe for acky.
You can determine how accurate your sample is by getting the std dev stat up and throwing your hands & win rate in to here.

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/poker_winrate_confidence/

Epic, will check this out tomorrow, thanks for sharing

 

[acky100]

Don't think pokertracker has EV results. I don't think the games im in are aggro really at all and there is absolutely no way you can happily get AK all in , in all spots yet. Obviously at good stakes like 600 and 1knl against more people you could get AK aipf in all spots, although there would still be some where you shouldn't, at 100 and 50 though no way, all in at 25 and 10nl should be so much more profitable just for the fact there are much more fish. Not to mention when you dont get all in and people stack off in spots they shouldnt a lot more.

I just can't see any hand being more profitable at the next limit up you go ever, AA or 72o. Games get harder, win rates get smaller, people make less mistakes, people who do play in a way so you have to stack AK in all spots are doing it because they are good, not so you can just decide to make more money off them stacking AK.

 

[Deco]

Ye I can see what people are getting at but I'd imagine AK makes way more money 3betting fish and stacking them post flop than it does by getting regs to fold their 3bet bluffs Button vs BB or whatever.

 

[acky100]

can't really tell anything from my 25nl sample either

100 BB/100 for AKs 420 hands

120BB/100 for AKo 1200 hands

Obviously sample size because AKs should make more than AKo!

 

[hackmeplz]

flat is really bad here. Fish don't like to fold to 3-bets. We have a strong hand. So 3-bet. The isolation is just a bonus. Only time I would ever flat is if blinds both squeeze like 20%+. Assuming you woulda mentioned that if that was the case so gonna say you really just need to 3b pre. Postflop I think it's closer than people make it out to be but probably a fold as well. Also I don't get the logic on why we need to shove or fold. I think call >>>>>> shove but I think fold is slightly better than call.

 

[JCgrind]

Also I don't get the logic on why we need to shove or fold. I think call >>>>>> shove but I think fold is slightly better than call.

errrrrrrr cos SB is shoving or folding? if we flat, were in a stupid spot when SB shoves cos were massively pot committed with ESS 150BB and cant really fold, but every time SB 3b shoves were gunna be up against a monster.

 

[hackmeplz]

errrrrrrr cos SB is shoving or folding?

Disagree.

if we flat, were in a stupid spot when SB shoves cos were massively pot committed with ESS 150BB and cant really fold, but every time SB 3b shoves were gunna be up against a monster.

If we're always gonna be up against a monster we're not pot committed with only TP here. We're allowed to fold to a shove although I disagree he shoves very often at all. Monsters don't usually half pot into a billion people on a board with a FD.

 

[JCgrind]

Disagree.



If we're always gonna be up against a monster we're not pot committed with only TP here. We're allowed to fold to a shove although I disagree he shoves very often at all. Monsters don't usually half pot into a billion people on a board with a FD.

If we over call the $37 shove how are we not pot committed with our ~75 stack?
As far as donking goes, why don't you think people do this with made hands? Donking made hands is part of a lot of people's game

 

[hackmeplz]

I was more referring to the size of his donk rather than the fact that he donked.

 

[JCgrind]

I was more referring to the size of his donk rather than the fact that he donked.

Size of his donk pretty irrelevant considering no reads and <50 hands